The Canadian Government is the biggest coin sorter!

[henrysmedford]

As being from the US I did not know that Canada had a alloy recovery program. Looks like there Canadian mint pulls the nickel and silver out circulation and sells it to be melted. The government can do it and make money be it is not legal for a Canadian to do so. Also you can get a job with Brinks doing the job.

Full Time Coin Processor (Expired)
Brinks Canada
TORONTO
Full Time Coin Processor Location : Toronto Ontario CA Job Type : Full Time Career Level : Entry Level Education : High School or equivalent Category : Manufacturing/Production/Operations Job Description : Create Your Own Brink’s Story Start your career with Brink’s, a worldwide leader and the most trusted name in secure transportation and logistics services for more than 150 years. As a service business in which security and safety are critical, Brink’s knows that success comes from having the right people and following the best business practices. That’s why we hire the best people and provide them with top-notch training, benefits, and support. In our branches, you have an opportunity to build a career. FULL-TIME COIN PROCESSOR AVAILABLE IN TORONTO (ARP) We have an immediate opening for a Full Time Coin Processor, to be located at our Toronto, Ontario Branch. Reporting to the Alloy Recovery Program (ARP) Supervisor, the incumbent will operate and maintain the coin wrapping and rolling machines and other machines as required, within the ARP coin processing operation. Scope · Load, unload and operate the Coin Processing and equipment &mi....
Found at Brinks Canada on 2010-11-16 03:32:55

Also from-- http://www.mint.ca/store/dyn/PDFs/RCM_AR04.pdf

• An alloy recovery program was introduced in 2003. Under this program all coins minted
prior 2001 are melted and the alloy recovered sent for sale to a metal dealer. The coins
are replaced with newly minted multi-ply coins. Revenue from the program reached
$8 million in 2004, contributing $5.4 million to operating income. This process also
reduces the number of solid alloy coins in the marketplace, facilitating the acceptance
and processing of coin-driven vending mechanisms.

And from-- http://www.mint.ca/store/dyn/PDFs/RCM_AR07.pdf

Profitable growth in high-margin coinage-related businesses – the
Alloy Recovery Program (ARP) and coin processing and recycling. In
2007, revenues from the ARP increased 84.5% to $35.8 million from
$19.4 million in 2006, driven primarily by record nickel metal prices.
Working together with Coinstar International Inc., 684 million coins
were recycled to generate revenue of $1 million and savings of
$2.2 million.

So if the melt ban in the US was lifted would Brinks and Coinstar get all the copper using there knowledge also I could not find out if the Canadian Government is pulling copper.
If all of this is old news to you sorry it is new to me.

[Morsecode]

Interesting, because I've lately been wondering how (or, if and when) the ban might be lifted here. Would it just come all at once on a certain date for everyone? Or would the government license certain few companies - with an appropriate licensing fee, of course - and leave it illegal for the rest of us for another 5 or 10 years.

And who is going to get this thing overturned anyway? Someone who will want something out of it in a big way, I'd imagine. Some conglomerate who could offer the gov't a percentage of every ton melted, in exchange for a limited time exclusive.

Think that's feasible?

[henrysmedford]

Some more fun facts all the blanks for US and Canadian pennies come from the same place http://www.jardenzinc.com/ and they have a strong lobby.

plant9.jpg (50.19 KiB) Viewed 2226 times

[Cerulean]

Wait, Jarden Zinc is supplying the steel planchets for the Canadian cent?

[highroller4321]

So if the melt ban in the US was lifted would Brinks and Coinstar get all the copper using there knowledge also I could not find out if the Canadian Government is pulling copper.
If all of this is old news to you sorry it is new to me. [/quote]


The Canadian goverment hired brinks to sort out the copper. Brinks won't do this on their own.....The have the ability to have their machines sort out silver, but they just throw it back in!

[highroller4321]

Interesting, because I've lately been wondering how (or, if and when) the ban might be lifted here. Would it just come all at once on a certain date for everyone? Or would the government license certain few companies - with an appropriate licensing fee, of course - and leave it illegal for the rest of us for another 5 or 10 years.

And who is going to get this thing overturned anyway? Someone who will want something out of it in a big way, I'd imagine. Some conglomerate who could offer the gov't a percentage of every ton melted, in exchange for a limited time exclusive.

Think that's feasible?

To a "normal" goverment who wants to actually make money instead of lose it yes that is more than feasible. Will the U.S ever do that? I doubt it!!

They will get rid of the penny and than it will no longer be legal tender so the melt ban won't apply. That or they start making the nickel out of steel and have to redo things.

[pennypicker]

also I could not find out if the Canadian Government is pulling copper.[/quote]

If anyone has a definitive answer to Henry's question I would sure like to know. I've always anticipated '40s & '50s Canadian cents becoming scarce due to the wholesale melting being done now and even more so in the future!

[highroller4321]

also I could not find out if the Canadian Government is pulling copper.

If anyone has a definitive answer to Henry's question I would sure like to know. I've always anticipated '40s & '50s Canadian cents becoming scarce due to the wholesale melting being done now and even more so in the future! [/quote]


No, they don't do copper. Reason being is because they are looking at, and probably going to, eliminate the penny so they figure they will just collect them when that happends.

[henrysmedford]

I Email the Mint and asked--

I sort pennies in the US and have some questions.

1- Does Canada pull copper cent out as part of the alloy recovery program.

2. Can a Canadian sent Canadian coins to the US and if so what is the dollar limit.
3. Can someone outside of Canada melt Canadian coins. I know that it is not legal for Canadians to do so in Canada to do so.
Thanks Joe Henry

[ed_vantage17]

Interesting, because I've lately been wondering how (or, if and when) the ban might be lifted here. Would it just come all at once on a certain date for everyone? Or would the government license certain few companies - with an appropriate licensing fee, of course - and leave it illegal for the rest of us for another 5 or 10 years.

And who is going to get this thing overturned anyway? Someone who will want something out of it in a big way, I'd imagine. Some conglomerate who could offer the gov't a percentage of every ton melted, in exchange for a limited time exclusive.

Think that's feasible?

To a "normal" goverment who wants to actually make money instead of lose it yes that is more than feasible. Will the U.S ever do that? I doubt it!!

They will get rid of the penny and than it will no longer be legal tender so the melt ban won't apply. That or they start making the nickel out of steel and have to redo things.

While I can see them pulling the cent from circulation, I'd would bet a large sum of FRN against them demonitizing the cent. The only gov't issued currency that was ever demonitized was the Trade Dollar and that has since been changed. Hell, even half cent coins are still officially legal tender.

[didou]

Canada doesn't melt copper cents.
I never read about it but the high and constant percentage found in circulation is a proof that they don't.

You can really feel the effects of ARP alloy recovery program when you search in 5 , 10 and 25 cents.

I guess the plan is just wait until they completely remove the 1 cents from circulation and melt it all here. And that no one is crazy enough to sort penny or won't sort enough to make a difference anyway.

[henrysmedford]

Wait, Jarden Zinc is supplying the steel planchets for the Canadian cent?

I do not know who supplies the steel planchets. I do know that the 2010-2011 Canadian circulation cents are zinc. From http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/learn/1-cent-5300004

2000 to date
Composition: 94% steel, 1.5% nickel, 4.5% copper plating or copper plated zinc
Weight (g): 2.35
Diameter (mm): 19.05
Thickness (mm): 1.45

so some are zinc and some are steel. When I went to buy the steel one 2010-2011 for Franklin's book I found out that the steel planchet were used for specimen cents we had to pay C$ 6.95 to get a 2011 and that price was a "steel" see http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260794378669&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

[highroller4321]

Interesting, because I've lately been wondering how (or, if and when) the ban might be lifted here. Would it just come all at once on a certain date for everyone? Or would the government license certain few companies - with an appropriate licensing fee, of course - and leave it illegal for the rest of us for another 5 or 10 years.

And who is going to get this thing overturned anyway? Someone who will want something out of it in a big way, I'd imagine. Some conglomerate who could offer the gov't a percentage of every ton melted, in exchange for a limited time exclusive.

Think that's feasible?

To a "normal" goverment who wants to actually make money instead of lose it yes that is more than feasible. Will the U.S ever do that? I doubt it!!

They will get rid of the penny and than it will no longer be legal tender so the melt ban won't apply. That or they start making the nickel out of steel and have to redo things.

While I can see them pulling the cent from circulation, I'd would bet a large sum of FRN against them demonitizing the cent. The only gov't issued currency that was ever demonitized was the Trade Dollar and that has since been changed. Hell, even half cent coins are still officially legal tender.

How much would you like to wager?


Australia and New Zealand both got rid of their 1 cent coins. New Zealand even got rid of their 5 cent coin.

http://www.newcoins.govt.nz/index.html

"New Zealand's old 50, 20, 10 and 5 cent coins are no longer legal tender. This means that retailers do not have to accept them as payment for goods or services.

The coins will always be redeemable for face value at the Reserve Bank, No 2 The Terrace, Wellington"


If you study the report the Canadian Senate issued a few months ago you would see how they studied and proposed basically the same thing New Zeland did.

Step 1: Stop making the cent
Step 2: Have a 1 year turn in program to the banks
Step 3: After the 1 year banks can choose if they want to take the cents
Step 4: Only the big goverment banks have to take the coins.

If you study the HR 6162 bill that was passed here in the U.S you will also see the U.S is thinking about doing this. (They just aren't thinking very hard about it)

[highroller4321]

I Email the Mint and asked--

I sort pennies in the US and have some questions.

1- Does Canada pull copper cent out as part of the alloy recovery program.

2. Can a Canadian sent Canadian coins to the US and if so what is the dollar limit.
3. Can someone outside of Canada melt Canadian coins. I know that it is not legal for Canadians to do so in Canada to do so.
Thanks Joe Henry

1: No, they do not sort out the copper.

2: Yes, they can send coins to the U.S. There is no limit but anything over $10,000 must be declared.

3: Yes, it is legal to melt Canadian coins outside of Canada. There are no U.S laws stating that its illegal to melt/destroy another countries currency.

[dpwozney]

so some are zinc and some are steel.

I have found that about one-half, of the Canadian pennies minted from 2000 to present, are not magnetic. All of the 2010-2011 Canadian pennies that I have tried are not magnetic.

[pennypicker]

I Email the Mint and asked--

I sort pennies in the US and have some questions.

1- Does Canada pull copper cent out as part of the alloy recovery program.

2. Can a Canadian sent Canadian coins to the US and if so what is the dollar limit.
3. Can someone outside of Canada melt Canadian coins. I know that it is not legal for Canadians to do so in Canada to do so.
Thanks Joe Henry

1: No, they do not sort out the copper.

2: Yes, they can send coins to the U.S. There is no limit but anything over $10,000 must be declared.

3: Yes, it is legal to melt Canadian coins outside of Canada. There are no U.S laws stating that its illegal to melt/destroy another countries currency.

Thank you Highroller for answering these three important questions.

[biglouddrunk]

I can think of one reason they might not pull copper. In a world that had no melt ban, but few sorter they would have less incentive to pull copper because for every cent they pull they would have to produce one cent. I'm unsure what a cent cost to produce, but it would not shock me if it cost more than 1 cent to make even copper plated steel. I could be wrong.

[Number21]

I wonder what kind of equipment they use for sorting? Rydales?

I'm unsure what a cent cost to produce, but it would not shock me if it cost more than 1 cent to make even copper plated steel. I could be wrong.

It certainly costs more than a penny to make a penny out of any metal...BUT...it might only cost 1.5 cents to make a steel penny and they could melt a copper for 3 cents or more.

I really don't see the US penny going away for a long, long time. A change to steel is probably very likely. Even if they stopped making the penny tomarrow, they will still count as "legal tender" and they will still be in circulation for decades and decades. (Look how many silver Kennedy halves are still circulating)

Also, they don't have to stop making the penny for the melt ban to be lifted. Remember, silver US coins are still legal tender but can also be legally melted....

[henrysmedford]

I wonder what kind of equipment they use for sorting? Rydales?

I found it! From http://www.brinksinc.com/journalArchive/Brinks_Journal_Issue11.pdf

In 2008, discussions and negotiations commenced to provide
Alloy Recovery Program services (ARP) in Toronto. The ARP
separates steel plated coins from alloy coins in quarters, dimes
and nickels, at which point the Mint demonetizes and sends them
to U.S. smelting operations to extract the specific alloys that will
be for sale on the world market.

Coin.jpg (136.94 KiB) Viewed 1930 times

[highroller4321]

I wonder what kind of equipment they use for sorting? Rydales?

I found it! From http://www.brinksinc.com/journalArchive/Brinks_Journal_Issue11.pdf

In 2008, discussions and negotiations commenced to provide
Alloy Recovery Program services (ARP) in Toronto. The ARP
separates steel plated coins from alloy coins in quarters, dimes
and nickels, at which point the Mint demonetizes and sends them
to U.S. smelting operations to extract the specific alloys that will
be for sale on the world market.

Coin.jpg

Thats what Brinks calls their super sorter. The other armored use a different machine for the ARP program.

[henrysmedford]

Thats what Brinks calls their super sorter. The other armored use a different machine for the ARP program.

So is yours like that one!!!!!

[camtender]

I wonder what kind of equipment they use for sorting? Rydales?

Thats what Brinks calls their super sorter. The other armored use a different machine for the ARP program.

So this super sorter can sort out silver?

[highroller4321]

So this super sorter can sort out silver?

Yes, it can sort out silver and copper. Brinks has this same machine in the U.S but they just throw the silver and copper back in with the rest of the coins.

This is a machine invented by Brinks. No, they will NOT sell one to anyone....

[psi]

I Email the Mint and asked--

I sort pennies in the US and have some questions.

1- Does Canada pull copper cent out as part of the alloy recovery program.

2. Can a Canadian sent Canadian coins to the US and if so what is the dollar limit.
3. Can someone outside of Canada melt Canadian coins. I know that it is not legal for Canadians to do so in Canada to do so.
Thanks Joe Henry

Might not have been the best idea to email the mint with those questions, it kind of makes it sound like there's a good reason to create an export ban. An export ban would really put a damper on coin sorting for us here because the domestic market for base metal coins is very limited.

[Crescendo]

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+304+28++%28foreign%20coin%29%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20


"Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or Whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

-So definitely not in use or circulated as money in the US except in towns close to the border of Canada (which don't make it legal U.S. tender) or the occasional 'oops I deposited a Canadian penny at the bank' example. But foreign coin which are "by law made current" is an interesting phrase since the Canadian penny is, by law, still a current form of money (just not US law). Would that have bearing here? Don't want to see any realcenters getting jailed or even fined.