To sell or not to sell (coin wrapper.)

[west77]

I got my start sorting pennies and nickels in 2007 and was a member on the old forum. Since then, I have continued my sorting at a slower rate due to the time consumption of this "hobby." In order to forgo a commercial banking account and skip the 3 or 5% fee of bringing in loose change I wrap all of my zincs and box them up to bring them back. While this allows me to operate "fee free", it isn't a lot of fun.

Recently, at an auction, I picked up a Reis Eurosystem cw2012 for less than $100 and needed to fish one screw out of the mechanism before it would work. Now, with it running full speed with no apparent issues I am trying to decide what route to take. I could purchase a Rydale and keep it fed then take the rejects and wrap them with this machine, or I could post the Reis for sale.

I would expect to be able to pull at least $3000 out of this machine as it was well maintained and a new wrapper of this type is $10 000 - $12 000. There is a part of me that is leaning towards selling it as even with a Rydale it would be far "too much wrapper" for what I need. I could take the profits and put it towards a smaller consumer wrapper and the Rydale and still have $$$ left over. At the same time, it is a hell of a machine to keep in the basement. over 300 lbs, tall, sleek and mechanically amazing. If you have never seen the inside of an industrial machine, you really need to see the sensors, motors, belts and mechanics. As the dealer told me; "it is a swiss watchmakers worst nightmare."

Any thoughts as to what I ought to do with it? It has an older style caster and is grey- but aside from that looks exactly like this.

[AlexTG]

If you do not intended to scale up your operation to something more deserving of this machine. I would suggest selling it, the machine will only lose value over time and you will never use it to max capacity. Granted you only payed $100 so the $ amount lost if you never sell is small, but the opertunity cost is high.

IMO get a feel for what you can sell the machine for, set your price high and let it slowly come down through haggeling.


Non-industrial operations do not need industrial machines.

There is of course the inverse side, scale up operations and start sorting like a mad man. That's the route I would go

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

wow! Nice machine, and only $100 bucks? What a steal!!!

The bigger question is: Are you ever going to ramp up and sort a mass of coins?

IF the answer is "yes"... don't ever let that thing out of you sight! it's a money maker. If the answer is no. Then sell it, take the profit and buy some silver!

Question: Will it roll other coins besides pennies? If it would do halves... I would be interested!!!

[frugalcanuck]

I think it is a difficult situation. I think I would keep it. You can still use it when you want to and save the fees and sell it if you "need the cash". It only cost you $100 and speeds up a portion of sorting that isnt the fun part. I think you got a steal and you will always have the ace up the sleeve if you need it. You could tqake the profit out of it now or later.

[tinhorn]

What a quandry. I still miss the old turn-of-the-century Parke-Davis encapsulator (pill making machine) I used to own. But let me ask you--would you pay $3000 to keep your machine? You have $3000 sitting there in a lump. If it's a good investment, that's great. Keep it (and try to find a service manual). If you're ahead to turn that three grand into different, more useful lumps, then you oughta do that instead.

Nothing wrong with owning a machine for its coolness factor. Mostly we do it in the form of vehicles, though.

[TXBullion]

What a quandry. I still miss the old turn-of-the-century Parke-Davis encapsulator (pill making machine) I used to own. But let me ask you--would you pay $3000 to keep your machine? You have $3000 sitting there in a lump. If it's a good investment, that's great. Keep it (and try to find a service manual). If you're ahead to turn that three grand into different, more useful lumps, then you oughta do that instead.

Nothing wrong with owning a machine for its coolness factor. Mostly we do it in the form of vehicles, though.

Its got wheels, a motor, and a nice paintjob, close enough right

[misteroman]

there was a nice one on here for $1500 a little while back that didnt wind up selling. I've been looking to get one myself.
GREAT score though

[uthminsta]

Just something to think about:
Sell it on here with the one condition that the buyer has to give you first chance if they ever want to resell.

[Corsair]

Do you live in a major city? If so, I think you be able to find a different dump back to avoid that fee. And if you could do that, there's no reason to keep the machine. Why are you interested in copper pennies? If it is to hold on to them for the foreseeable future and sell them when the time is right, why not sell the machine and invest your profit into Cu cents? That would save you the time and hassle of sorting, and if you could find the right price for the machine, you could pick up a nice load of pennies.

I agree with the opinion of the others who have posted here so far. If you don't plan on seriously ramping up your sorting, why keep the machine? It's a $3000 asset sitting in your basement. Why not have that $3000 go to a ton of copper pennies? I think that would be the better investment.

[slickeast]

Where is HCBTT at when you need him. He has a few coin rolling machines and I am sure he could shed some light on this unit.

[twentybux]

Where is HCBTT at when you need him. He has a few coin rolling machines and I am sure he could shed some light on this unit.

My thoughts precisely, Slick. He must be down for a cat nap. Ha!

[west77]

Wow! Thanks for all of the replies. I now have more to think about (and a few more options.) I would have no issues with scaling up my operations, but right now I just keep what I sort. To get to the point where having this machine makes sense I would need a couple of hundred dollars a month to pour into copper that would just sit... unless something has changed in the last couple of years, there is no copper market that makes sense to a Canadian. No demand here, can't melt them, can't ship them south of the boarder.

Of course, I could really scale up operations. I am going to swing by a couple of places tomorrow and ask some questions as I am having a few thoughts on possible futures for the machine. I know of several places that do coin by hand and/or use a severely undersized machine... Possibly I need to add a sorter to my inventory, place both machines in one of the extra 5 ton trucks I own and drive it around- I am wondering what kind of money there might be in it... Granted, it would deviate from my pennies and nickels, but it might be interesting. Would a mobile wrapping and sorting "facility" be filling an undiscovered need or completely pointless pursuit? Perhaps doing a "brinks" style pick up strictly for coin where you toss the bags into a safe bolted to the floors and sort and a main facility then sell the wrapped coin (obviously undercutting Brinks fees on both ends or supplying smaller businesses that Brinks does not want to touch...)

Short of actually being able to use it to make some $$$ I think it might be sold. It is cool- and I will try to take a few pictures of the innards over the next week or two if anybody is interested, but I don't think I need to add another machine to my ever growing collection of unused industrial scale "stuff." Anybody want to buy a Komatsu excavator, 5 ton, crane truck or flat bed? (all are sitting and collecting dust and rust.)

To answer the question, Sheikh: This is presently programmed for Canadian coins (loonies, toonies etc...) and has been programmed to take parking tokens (it belonged to the universities parking control prior to arriving in my possession.) It can be programmed by the factory to sort any coins or tokens of varying sizes... It is advertised as wrapping 25 rolls a minute.

Thanks again for the ideas.

[HPMBTT]

25 rolls PER MINUTE??? DAMN!. Man, now that's one awesome machine. Explore your options and let us know how it works out.

[west77]

I brought the machine in to work and purchased $180 in pennies from them and made our accountants day. They had a partial jug from the last few drives that they were going to roll. I ran it through, bagged it and paid face value for the coins. I found a place to sell me the paper for rolling and the machine works flawlessly (though it did spit one "roll" out without paper... just coins flying out of the chute. ) I can do a box ($25) in about 2 1/2 to 3 minutes and that includes wrapping, counting and boxing.

The guy who sold me the papers says that an amusement park in town bought a machine similar to mine and is wrapping $25 000 in coin each day for 100 days in the summer. They are doing the same thing as I am considering and "custom wrapping coin" for winter with their machine.

Anyhow, I know that work will happily pay me a couple of hundred next January to wrap their coin. Also, our accountant "moonlights" for a vending company and says he deposits about $6500 a week in coin... and does not own a wrapper. I still have a couple of other places to look at, but things are looking like it may be a new sideline for me. It was also suggested that before the Calgary Stampede comes to town that I look closely at setting up on the fair ground for 10 days and charge a % of all coin rolled for the various vendors and companies and could sell the wrapped coin back to some of the retail stands that will need coin. Perhaps I will run away with the circus when they leave.

Costs will consist of maintenance / repairs and papers are about $10/ roll. A roll of paper will wrap around 2000 rolls of each denomination of coin. I figured out that wrapping toonies ($2 Canadian coin) at full speed would be around $75 000 an hour! (Just pointless trivia that I was thinking about.)

After a couple of rolls of penny paper it is still an investment of under $100 and seems like it may provide an interesting opportunity for an income stream. If I end up doing other charites I will offer to purchase their pennies outright as well and have a whole new "stream" of consumer grade pennies. I am actually quite excited for a whole new direction in life. I can keep the job, enjoy that and "moonlight" as a coin wrapper for those without thousands to invest in the equipment.

Anyhow, I will keep people posted with the occasional update (provided it works out... if you don't hear from me you can likely take that as proof of defeat and failure.)

[west77]

25 rolls PER MINUTE??? DAMN!. Man, now that's one awesome machine. Explore your options and let us know how it works out.

Yeah, and that is only the "mid level" for a commercial machine. The glory WR400 does an incredible 40 rolls each minute. I am impressed watching mine and can only imagine what it would look like going 1.5 X faster!

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

Back from the Cat nap.

Nothing wrong with owning a machine for its coolness factor. Mostly we do it in the form of vehicles, though.

I completely agree with owning machines for the coolness factor. Or to give other members of the forum machine envy.

Sweet machine! I wouldn't mind adding it to the hoard.. but hard to justify when you already have 3 Glory wrapping machines. I will admit to having a bit too much machinery for a non-industrial application.. but I have been known to ramp up to some serious levels occasionally. The automatic rolling machines are extremely convenient for taking care of the part of the hobby that most of us dread.. and they do make zinc disposal a heck of a lot easier.

Not sure about the estimate of value. Buyers of that level of machine are scarce and what with the glut of machines on the market from casinos and banks that closed down, the used market is not as strong as it used to be. Used Glory WR400's can be had for less than that. I would love to sell one of my Mach 7 counter/sorter machines for 25% of the original sale price of $25K.

I would always rather have too much machine than not enough.

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

I like the idea of using the machine to make extra money by moonlighting. If you can make a few hundred here and there, that is a pretty good return on investment. Think of the machine as a tool.. a tool that can make you extra money.

[Bostonbean02]

i would keep it .. unless you want to sell it to me for 150

[west77]

I really don't know for certain what they are worth (I realize that a machine like this is only worth what somebody is willing to pay...) I could only find two used Reis Eurosystems in Canada, and they were both over $3000 (but both had been for sale for awhile now.) I called a couple of places in Vegas that sell used casino equipment and their Glory 400's are going for $7000 - $12 000 depending on condition and the count run through them. They didn't have a price posted online, and it could be that they are expecting a buyer to haggle, or that somebody calling up out of the blue asking for a "one off" sale does not really appeal to them and they quote high... I will admit to not having shopped around too much for an estimate. All that I know is that the dealer in town does not sell used equipment (which is a real shame as local consignment with the only guy in town with a customer base for this type of machine would have been a great option if I decided to sell.)

I can see where there would be a higher supply with less demand now that casinos have moved to a "paper in, paper out" system. Suddenly hundreds of machines are no longer needed in count rooms across the nation. I visited 4 casinos in town to try to find out where they buy their rolling paper and every last one had switched to a coinless system a few years ago... nobody even had memory of where they used to make their purchase. This also means that their machines have already been absorbed into the system years ago (kind of makes me wonder where they all ended up... not everybody wants one sitting in their basement. )

Right now I am really trying to figure out what to charge to wrap quarters, loonies and toonies. I could go with a percentage, but that would be a tougher sell for car washes and the likes (which only take $1 and $2 coins) or I could go with a flat fee (but what if I end up with somebody like myself with hundreds of dollars in pennies?) Really, trying to figure out what is fair, how much it is worth for a business not to have several employees wrapping coin for a few hours each week is a little difficult. I am thinking of a $200 flat fee to wrap up to a certain number of rolls and then a surcharge for rolls above that threshold. This would encourage people to not bring me in every week to wrap 50 rolls, but rather to save up and bring me in monthly... To give an idea to anybody who thinks that is steep- Calgary is still doing well economically. Shop rates for car repair is $110, a skilled trades person is $80 - $100 an hour and the economy is still rolling along pretty strong for now.

[Lemon Thrower]

i would sell it and get a ryedale. its hard to justify a $3000 investment when if you invest some legwork you might find a bank that takes bagged coin deposits.

so i would also do a lot more legwork and find a bank that will allow you to dump in bags and i would buy a $300 tabletop coin counter.

as far as selling goes, keep in mind that shipping is crazy and people are leery of paying $3000 sight unseen for something that costs maybe $500 in freight to return.

[west77]

I am now officially off my rocker. Instead of selling the wrapper, I bought a Cummins Jetsort (3000 series) rated for around 4500 coins per minute to pair up with the wrapper. I regret not having bought it at the same auction (it went for around $100 as well, but I saw no need to have a sorter when I only do pennies and nickels.) So I tracked down the buyer and purchased it for $500 giving him a nice return on investment and reminding me that I should always buy anything that catches my interest.

Now the hard part of figuring out what to charge to Pick up, sort, count, wrap and deposit coin. All of the big Canadian banks charge business accounts 2.15% to deposit rolled coin. I found a small bank that charges 10 cents per roll. Being as I will not be doing pennies and nickels with the business account I have my fixed costs to deposit @ 1% or less (loonies are $25 / roll and twoonies are $50 per roll, making them low fee.) I have to continue with research to see if I can find a bank that actually wants my business with rolled coin and would waive these fees.

Does anybody here have any experience with commercial wrappers or Brinks to know what they charge for this service? There are no free counters and sorters in Calgary banks so my competition is limited to somebody with an industrial wrapper (and possibly a free counter at one Safeway, but no business owner needs to spend their entire income there.)

so i would also do a lot more legwork and find a bank that will allow you to dump in bags and i would buy a $300 tabletop coin counter.

In Canada we do not have the number of banks competing for our business that you do and our fees and their service reflect this. In my city of a million I only have the choice of the 4 large banks and a few credit unions. When I asked the branch manager at TD about depositing bags she had never even heard of such a practice- they have never had anybody try. There is no such thing as depositing bags unless you hire Brinks- and they charge you to pick up and wrap (I am trying to find out their rate.) They also do not pick up at residential addresses, so I would need to rent a space somewhere. There just are no options when it comes to Canada and banking... I really wish there were as free chequing went the way of the dodo a few decades ago up here.

The only thing that I found is that Staples allows fee free cash deposits for business using CIBC's bank machines. Of course, that works if you have large bills and cheques, but not for coin... so the search continues.

[68Camaro]

Wow. Not much competition; I had no idea.

If you were near me I would pay you something reasonable to wrap my pennies, but that wouldn't amount to much, and I'm 3000 miles away...