Realcent.org

I need your help to find the true nationwide average of copper pennies for mixed cents. If you sort pennies and keep track of your copper percentages please PM me your copper percentage and how many total pennies were sorted. A number is preferred to a percentage, if you could say for example "3,124 copper pennies out of 10,000" as opposed to "about 31% copper out of $100." This will make it easier for me to get the closest true percentage. Please don't message me saying that you sorted about $100 in pennies and by the weight you guess it's about 22%. An exact number would be best, if you have a roller for zincs just count how much you rolled and subtract it from your starting mixed amount.

Common wheat pennies, uncommon wheats (to 1939) and key dates, Kings, Canadians, Indian head pennies, dimes, errors, and other oddities will be included if you tell me how many you get. My hope is to get enough participants to find the true percentage of copper pennies and other oddities. I will try to post an update on the first of every month (or longer if there is not enough data).

When sending percentages please do not include batches with 100% zinc unless they are CWRs. Also please only use percentages from after January 1 and try to keep your numbers as accurate as possible. If you hand-sort and do not weigh the 1982s you may add how many 82s you got and I will figure about 80% are copper. If you would like you may include your state and city and maybe I could make a map of the percentages. Thank you for participating.

Kiwiman

Great idea Kiwiman.

Ive mostly estimated mine so far.(at about 20% avg)

Starting with the 2 boxes I'm working on now I will get an exact count for you.

Sounds like a new Tracking Thread kiwiman. Got your Excel spreadsheet ready to do the dirty work? I have some data collected, but I think you should go for it.

I suggest collecting 2011 fresh data, as older data may be guesses by some. If I can help you in some way, just ask. Good Luck...

Country,

what were your basic findings and the date you collected the data?

Finder wrote:Country,

what were your basic findings and the date you collected the data?

Here's what I wrote responding to another thread:

"I've been tracking some of the COPPER posts in the Handsorting thread that I maintain. So far this month, 10 posters are averaging 26.3% COPPER. Tracking the COPPER stats for September to December 2010, showed a national average about 20%. Since I had only 21 posters that really is not enough to give an exacting nationwide perspective. Some trends can be seen: those posters in the SouthWest and Southern states are extracting COPPER in the 15%-20% range, those in the mid-Atlantic around 20%-25%, while others are still averaging 30%. My guess would be that regional areas that have a bias towards PM extraction (more sorters) will get the lowest percentages. I don't see anyone averaging less than 15% at this time, but a 32% average (quite good) is the highest."

Country wrote:32% average (quite good)

i think most excellent...I average 18%...'cept last night 19.73%...ok Kiwi are you accepting hand sorters only or machine sorters also...I did $275 last night with 5426 copper cents pulled out, 14 early wheats..pre 1943. But dont usually hand check for later wheats.

I average 22.5 % copper. I buy bags loose. When I dump I take the total zincs dumped and do the math.

It has been 22.5 % copper for the last 3 weeks.

yea handsorters are fine

I am soooooooo confused.

Isn't that what is already being done in the Copper Penny Handsorter Tracking Thread that is maintained by Country?

http://realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2474

kiwiman wrote:yea handsorters are fine

I was asking, "machine sorters also?" since we all may not check the cu closely like hand sorters...And didnt Beaunderos do this last year according to the Fed District map...Kiwi you may want to shoot him a message he may have a load of data already. Last nights $250 of cents yielded 19.74%, 9 early wheats and 4935 Cu cents. Nice improvement over the usual 17.8% - 18%.

Cheers!

PreservingThePast wrote:I am soooooooo confused.

Isn't that what is already being done in the Copper Penny Handsorter Tracking Thread that is maintained by Country?

http://realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2474

woops i never saw that, yes i guess just report to him

If I had to guess I'd say that I'm extracting copper in the 20% range per box atm.

kiwiman... check out this thread from the old forum in it's entirety, might be helpful:
http://realcent.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14122

I'm a hand sorter in the Los Angeles area and I'm extracting at a "lofty" 16%.

Not trying to be a stick in the mud but the point is? Knowing the copper percentage found around the country does not help anyone achieve any better ratio, correct?

I would be interested if people report that the rates are dropping. The first group to sound the alarm I think would be the guys at the Portland Mint. They are the biggest player on the board I would guess.

Regardless, if you look at the back of a napkin figures it has been estimated that there is around 191 billion pennies in circulation give or take several billion...If you remember the not to distant past i.e. Mr. Luhrman of Jackson Metals LLC in Jackson, Ohio... He sorted 5 billion coins annually, separating out 1.2 billion copper pennies all prior to the melt ban.

So all this drum beating that soon you want be able to find copper pennies in circulation is hogwash....With copper prices as high as they are obviously things will change when the melt ban is lifted and or the penny is no more.

I don't really care one way or other; no dog in this. But interesting that you note that person and number. Seems to me you're actually supporting the point that there could be a finite and very near life to copper. If your Mr Luhrman was once the number one sorter, and only one at that scale, but the number of sorters goes up by a factor as their rate goes down, you get the following progression, totalling to something like 8 billion per year. How many are left in circulation? 30 billion? 40 billion? Reduce 40 billion per year at a rate of 8 billion, and you're at 5 years, give or take. It's finite - it has to be. Only question is the magnitude of time, and greshams law says they will disappear sooner than later, as long as they have value.

number of sorters sorting rate subtotal
1 1,000,000,000 1,000,000,000
10 100,000,000 1,000,000,000
100 10,000,000 1,000,000,000
1000 1,000,000 1,000,000,000
10,000 100,000 1,000,000,000
100,000 10,000 1,000,000,000
1,000,000 1,000 1,000,000,000
10,000,000 100 1,000,000,000
Grand total 8,000,000,000

I'm not saying copper will never run out but if you look at the numbers…

191 billion pennies in circulation and the guy with the best equipment could only sort 5 billion a year. So it would take him 38 years to sort all the ones in circulation assuming you only sorted the same penny one time.

Lets imagine for a moment he is still doing it and everyone on this board combined make up another 5 billion pennies sorted…

Ok… so we have 19 years let before poof!!

I think it is a safer bet to count on the dollar being so devaluated that the penny will be deemed worthless and discontinued and the melt ban lifted.

With the economy being what it is, I would be willing to bet the number (not the percentage) of circulating copper cents is actually increasing, not decreasing. The percentage, of course, is decreasing annually due to the infusion of billions of additional zinc pennies added to the pot. So our return requires slightly more effort as each year passes, but with percentages in the fifteen to thirty-two percent range a nominal decline of one-fourth or one-half percent is not going to deter anyone from mining. I don't even keep track of the percentage I get, just keep the Ryedale churning. Don't take the time to search for wheaties, will do that when the day arrives when time is more bountiful than access to remaining copper cents. Thinking that I've crossed the million cents mark by now, but I doubt our membership would approach a fraction of the amount sorted by Jackson. Dude, we're talking about $12 million in pennies!

The best thing for all of us will be if the economy does *not* self-destruct, or severely inflate, in which case I agree the copper sources will last for a number of further years. So I wish the best for you all. Just keep in mind that there is power in numbers, and the people on this board are *not* the only ones pulling pennies. There are tens of thousands like me, small-time, pulling pennies out of circulation not by the millions, but by the tens of thousands, and tens of thousands times tens of thousands is billions. If the economy worsens, they will get sucked up fast.

Copper Catcher wrote:Not trying to be a stick in the mud but the point is? Knowing the copper percentage found around the country does not help anyone achieve any better ratio, correct?

Sure it does.. I'm gonna start buying all my pennies to sort in Michigan and Maine.

Jackson Metals had a contact (s) with an armored company (s) right? I don't see any other way that he could sort 1 million dollars a week.

If I remember right he was working with Brinks and Coinstar as well....it has been so long ago it seems.

It would not shock me if he had investors and was still pulling them out to sit on them.