Realcent.org

hobo finds wrote:What about the numbers if you include all small cents mintages from flying eagles to copper memorials and proofs. Are there still more zinc cents made than copper ones

It seems so, yes. And every year they grow more and more scarce.

Mercuryman wrote:

hobo finds wrote:What about the numbers if you include all small cents mintages from flying eagles to copper memorials and proofs. Are there still more zinc cents made than copper ones

It seems so, yes. And every year they grow more and more scarce.

I figured it would be close if you took away the steel cents, added proofs and added how many copper Presidental Life copper ones they made. But looking at numbers it looks like alot of zinc proofs were made as well!

hobo finds wrote:What about the numbers if you include all small cents mintages from flying eagles to copper memorials and proofs. Are there still more zinc cents made than copper ones

Definitely. Although, I wouldn't include 1857-1864 mintages, since they SHOULDN'T end up in a cent bag. I would say they are more likely to show up in a nickel bag. And I didn't include the Indians because it's held by some they are found about one in a million cents, so they would affect percentages only negligibly.

For clarity's sake, though, and to really continue the intellectual exercise, here are all the basic divisions of small cents:
Copper-Nickel Indians and Flying Eagles: 200 million.
Bronze Indians: 1.7 billion.
Bronze Wheats: 24.7 billion.
1943 Steelies: 1.1 billion.
Bronze memorials: approx 153 billion*
Zinc memorials: approx 275 billion*
Post-memorials: 28.2 billion and counting.

* - The 1982 mintage (total 16.7 billion) was split between copper and zinc. These figures assume 5 billion were zinc.

Or to simplify it even more:
CuNi: 200 million.
Bronze: 180 billion.
Steel: 1.1 billion.
Zinc: 303 billion. (Chug, chug, chug, chug... 304 billion... chug chug chug... 305 billion...)

Link here for the current year's ongoing totals:
http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/in ... N=91115970

Those figures do not include proofs. Below are the proof totals:

Wheat: about 3.9 million
Copper memorial: 65 million
Zinc memorial: 81 million

I didn't easily find mintage figures for the recent ones, but I saw someone's guess on 2009:
Copper presidency: 9.7 million - that's a guess.
Zinc shield: I don't know.

uthminsta wrote:Although, I wouldn't include 1857-1864 mintages, since they SHOULDN'T end up in a cent bag. I would say they are more likely to show up in a nickel bag.

Why? They're the same size as other small cents, right?

So I added up all mintages of small cents that I could find through 2013 and it looks like...
<1% Steel
37% Copper
63% Zinc

And I split 82's mintage numbers including profs in half (1/2 cu 1/2 zinc) and no luck for proof shield mintages either...

As the zinc keep getting pumped out and the coppers hoarded, only thing to do is sort while you can still can if you are getting a decent %. I wonder how long before the %'s are too low to keep searching....

uthminsta wrote:Although, I wouldn't include 1857-1864 mintages, since they SHOULDN'T end up in a cent bag. I would say they are more likely to show up in a nickel bag.

scyther wrote:Why? They're the same size as other small cents, right?

Thicker, and heavier: 4.67g compared to 3.11g on the bronze.

uthminsta wrote:

uthminsta wrote:Although, I wouldn't include 1857-1864 mintages, since they SHOULDN'T end up in a cent bag. I would say they are more likely to show up in a nickel bag.

scyther wrote:Why? They're the same size as other small cents, right?

Thicker, and heavier: 4.67g compared to 3.11g on the bronze.

Interesting, I never knew that. I have an Indian Head cents folder and it looks like the holes for the nickel ones are the same size as for the copper ones...

I gave up hoarding coppers last year. I was getting about 20-25% per box in 2010, but was only getting about 7-10% when I stopped.

Along with the newbie hoarding, every year there are billions of more zincs made diluting out the coppers. Not worth my time and energy (i.e. gasoline) anymore. I've amassed about 1 ton of copper over the last 4 years... not too bad.

I've been concentrating on getting more silver bullion a gold fractionals while it's still dirt cheap. It's not going to be dirt cheap for much longer.

So after posting in this thread, I decided to try my luck at getting some boxes at the local branch. A nice young teller gal asked how many rolls I wanted. I told her whatever she could spare without any trouble. She said, half jokingly, that she had about $50 worth. When I told her I'd like to have them all, it took her a while to realize I was serious. But she was still very cool and no attitude. I totally appreciated that.

One box was sealed... I opened it and found it was all Brinks 2014-D zinc rolls. I guess not a total loss since I like to keep a few uncirculated rolls from every year and didn't have any 2014's yet.

The second box was put together by the nice teller using loose rolls on hand... it contained about $10 in 2014 Brinks rolls and the rest CWRs and shrink wraps.

In total I netted about 3500 CU and 4 wheat backs. Considering the massive dilution of uncirculated shields, I guess it's okay. But I was very disappointed to get so many rolls not even worthy of sorting. Made for a short night feeding my home brew sorting machine for sure.

Still getting 25-30% in michigan. I am surprised it has not dropped any because I'd say Im getting abt 7 shields per roll. The only good thing about them is for us hand sorteres you don't even have to flip the penny.

Zincanator wrote:...about $50 worth...
One box ... was all Brinks 2014-D zinc rolls...
The second box ... contained about $10 in 2014 Brinks rolls...
In total I netted about 3500 CU

Do you mean 350 CU?
By the way, I hate when that happens. A few weeks ago I got a "dirty" 2013 box - clear plastic, and it had 1 or 2 non-2013 cents per roll. And most of those were just dirty zincs. Seriously?

Whoops, yes $3.50 worth, not 3500.

Lots of horror stories here, glad I struck while the iron was hot.

I understand the theory behind there being more zincs in circulation by year, but maybe they are trying to fill the void of hoarders somewhat too. You know they are running inventory every year with suppliers and noticing a void that was not previously there.

Zincanator wrote:One box was sealed... I opened it and found it was all Brinks 2014-D zinc rolls. I guess not a total loss since I like to keep a few uncirculated rolls from every year and didn't have any 2014's yet.

'Scuse the silly question - but how does one detect a uncirculated roll? As in - you can see the coins on each end - but what's in the middle - how does one know they are all 2014's (or what ever) w/o cracking the roll(s)?

Thanks

JD

J_Dodge wrote:

Zincanator wrote:One box was sealed... I opened it and found it was all Brinks 2014-D zinc rolls. I guess not a total loss since I like to keep a few uncirculated rolls from every year and didn't have any 2014's yet.

'Scuse the silly question - but how does one detect a uncirculated roll? As in - you can see the coins on each end - but what's in the middle - how does one know they are all 2014's (or what ever) w/o cracking the roll(s)?

Thanks

JD

The odds of all 50 rolls having new 2014 dates on each roll is enough to be a dead give away.

ah - how silly of me....

My prior experience has been w/ boxes containing rolls of mixed dates - some which I suspected were all new ones of date 'x', but
no way of knowing for certain w/o cracking them....

So if you crack open a roll, and they are all of a given year - do they still count as uncirculated once cracked?

JD

Of all the cent boxes I have sorted, I've only gotten (1) box that was full of 2013 shields, all the rest have been mixed. End coins can be misleading, but if a whole box has HH HT or TT configuration and I see the same date repeated, I'm betting its a solid box.

J_Dodge wrote:So if you crack open a roll, and they are all of a given year - do they still count as uncirculated once cracked?

JD

Grading uncirculated (like beauty) is in the eye of the be-holder. If you "Be Holdin" them, then they are no longer uncirculated.

That being said, I have seen some open a roll and slide it directly into a plastic tube without touching them. I would think that anything that came from the mint without being circulated prior or touched by oily hands, could be counted as uncirculated. Touring the mint though, the cents really go through some rough stuff even after being struck, so "bag marks" would be evident I presume.

Follow up: I wonder if a bag of 5000 cents (Fully opened and untouched from suspect rolls of a solid date) would bring the same $$ at an ebay auction as (2) boxes of "suspect" solid date boxes. So are those folks keeping unopened boxes of solid date cents better off knowing or not knowing if they are truly solid date? My suspicion is that 5000 cents All uncirculated (dumped from rolls of "solid date" and not touched) would sell for less than (2) unopened boxes of solid date.

3 bags this week yielded 23.5%.
They were all from the same credit union, loaded with 2014's.
I better start sorting 4 bags a week!

I was able to pick up nearly $500 in pennies last week. Supply isn't an issue yet. Out of all the boxes I picked up only one was a box of 2014s and I was able to take it to another branch and exchange for $25 in CWRs with no trouble. Now I have another big pile to sort. So far the copper percentage has been about average.

LooseChange wrote:Of all the cent boxes I have sorted, I've only gotten (1) box that was full of 2013 shields, all the rest have been mixed. End coins can be misleading, but if a whole box has HH HT or TT configuration and I see the same date repeated, I'm betting its a solid box.

LooseChange

Can you explain "HH HT or TT configuration"?

Thks

JD

J_Dodge wrote:

LooseChange wrote:Of all the cent boxes I have sorted, I've only gotten (1) box that was full of 2013 shields, all the rest have been mixed. End coins can be misleading, but if a whole box has HH HT or TT configuration and I see the same date repeated, I'm betting its a solid box.

LooseChange

Can you explain "HH HT or TT configuration"?

Thks

JD

He's referring to the end coins on the rolls. Head/Head, Head/Tail or Tail/Tail showing.

Hi all, pennies are easy to get here in san diego if you are willing to be assertive enough to talk w/ the vault teller--or you have a business license. Problem now is yield has dropped to about 10-10.5% and the number of filthy coins is incredible. I do 40-50 boxes a week and the pennies w/ green, solder. epoxy, chewing gum, etc. is overwhelming me............................h

Grading uncirculated (like beauty) is in the eye of the be-holder. If you "Be Holdin" them, then they are no longer uncirculated.

For many years I held the same literal interpretation of 'Uncirculated' vs 'Circulated'. If you pulled it out of 'Circulation' it can't be uncirculated.

However, that is why the ANA changed the grading terminology from 'Uncirculated' to 'Mint State' i.e. MS60 thru MS70.

So it is possible to retrieve a coin from circulation that grades in 'Mint State'

Likewise, it is possible to retrieve a coin from a Mint sewn bag, that is 'Uncirculated', that is so bad that it will not grade as 'Mint State'.

Hope that helps. It took me a long time to wrap my head around that concept.

RichardPenny43 wrote:Down to 24% this week.
A wise man once said, "just sort more!".

LOL.. no matter how many you sort.. It is not enough! Checking that map thingy to see where RichardPenny43 sorts at. 24% sounds pretty good to most of us. Moving all those heavy machines is gonna be a bitch though.

Your percentages will never be better than they are now.

Abraham Lincoln.. who many consider to be a wise man.. well at least he is quoted a lot said

"Good things come to those who wait.. but only those things left by those who hustle"