Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

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Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby Recyclersteve » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:54 am

I wanted to start the ball rolling on a debate (pros and cons) about whether sorting pennies is really worthwhile. I can see where someone of modest means who can't afford silver might be attracted to pennies. I can also see where someone who has a substantial net worth might want copper to help diversify their investments (just like Kyle Bass bought a million dollars of nickels several years back).

The flip side is that while a ton of pennies sounds like a lot, it is about $3,000 face and can be bought from Portland Mint for slightly less than $5,000 plus shipping. So a ton of coins would take a lot of space, yet even if the $5,000 in coins doubled or tripled in value over a few years, it wouldn't change my lifestyle or help me get that much closer to retirement. Put another way, I would likely have to wait perhaps 5-10 years to make perhaps a $10,000 profit on my copper pennies. Some stock traders make that much in a single trade in a day.

I guess we can also include whether or not it is worthwhile doing by hand versus with a Ryedale or some other type of sorter. Although the Ryedale may definitely pay for itself for heavy users, there is a fairly big time commitment involved (procuring all the pennies, cracking open the rolls, maintaining the machine, returning the coins to a dump bank) before the machine can truly pay for itself.

I can see the pros and cons of this endeavor. If I didn't enjoy the coin hobby, it would be much less enjoyable. What does everyone else think? What else am I missing in my evaluation?
Former stock broker w/ ~20 yrs. at one company. Spoke with 100k+ people and traded a lot (long, short, options, margin, extended hours, etc.).

Please note that ANY stocks I discuss, no matter how compelling, carry risk- sometimes substantial. If not prepared to buy it multiple times in modest amounts without going overboard (assuming nothing really wrong with the company), you need to learn more about the market and managing risk. Also, please research covered calls (options) as well.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby coppernickel » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:26 am

The sorting wave is nearly past. Getting harder to find to find the coins to sort. There is so far little market for copper cents.

Definitely better place to hold wealth than paper dollars, bank account, or stocks. On the other side it will be worth it.

Not as good as silver or gold, but easier and less expensive. :thumbup:
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby frugi » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:19 pm

as of the news today, the copper market is trying to be cornered by the Red Kite Group.......unconfirmed holding of 50+% of london metal exchange = 90% of world market... :shock:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-27/copper-surges-after-report-mysterious-london-buyer-has-cornered-90-market
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby coppernickel » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:51 pm

:ugeek: Chacolithic (Copper age) is the period before the Iron age when metals were finally understood.

Copper has been used for many centuries, it will continue. :geek:

Just nice too have a little cache before a day too late.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby highroller4321 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:41 pm

Recyclersteve wrote:I wanted to start the ball rolling on a debate (pros and cons) about whether sorting pennies is really worthwhile. I can see where someone of modest means who can't afford silver might be attracted to pennies. I can also see where someone who has a substantial net worth might want copper to help diversify their investments (just like Kyle Bass bought a million dollars of nickels several years back).

The flip side is that while a ton of pennies sounds like a lot, it is about $3,000 face and can be bought from Portland Mint for slightly less than $5,000 plus shipping. So a ton of coins would take a lot of space, yet even if the $5,000 in coins doubled or tripled in value over a few years, it wouldn't change my lifestyle or help me get that much closer to retirement. Put another way, I would likely have to wait perhaps 5-10 years to make perhaps a $10,000 profit on my copper pennies. Some stock traders make that much in a single trade in a day.

I guess we can also include whether or not it is worthwhile doing by hand versus with a Ryedale or some other type of sorter. Although the Ryedale may definitely pay for itself for heavy users, there is a fairly big time commitment involved (procuring all the pennies, cracking open the rolls, maintaining the machine, returning the coins to a dump bank) before the machine can truly pay for itself.

I can see the pros and cons of this endeavor. If I didn't enjoy the coin hobby, it would be much less enjoyable. What does everyone else think? What else am I missing in my evaluation?



You are comparing an apple to an orange....

What you are also missing is that you can lose $10,000 in a single trade on the stock market.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby JerrySpringer » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:05 pm

Recyclersteve wrote:I can see the pros and cons of this endeavor. If I didn't enjoy the coin hobby, it would be much less enjoyable. What does everyone else think? What else am I missing in my evaluation?


You could just buy the boxes/bags of cents from the bank and let them sit unsearched and also act as a hard asset savings account that you can tap for rainy day. I have not kept track of the dollar amount of the copper I set aside. In some ways I do not want to know as I think it will probably be less than what I think my effort was worth to sort it. I may be surprised what I have in dollar amount. IDK. If I had a ton more cash, I'd probably just buy $25 boxes and $50 bags of cents and forget about them and if I ever needed cash flow, just sort out the zinc for those days.

I am getting leery of silver right now. The CRH'ing was fun when I did it heavily, but I think many places have been strained by all the others doing the same and the element of the hunt has become too competitive to make it worth it. Luck had a lot to do with finding silver and also just the lack of awareness by the general public. For the cost of gasoline now, I could just as well just buy silver from an outfit like Apmex or such with saved up funds. Not exactly thrilled that silver is doing the two steps back, one step forward price movement. But then again, for first-time buyers, this is a good place to initiate their dollar-cost averaged cost basis at.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby mtalbot_ca » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:31 pm

I think that you can, with penny hoarding, hit a couple of sweet spots:

1- You acquire a hard asset, which will protect you through inflation;
2- You have a hobby, which does not involve a lot of investment and has some great relaxation potential;
3- The same hobby, provides you as a bonus, an excellent and cheap opportunity to educate your family about economics;
4- You have the opportunity to further your hobby by error searching;
5- You can transform your copper holding into anything related to flooring, countertops, wall art etc...
6- You will be remembered as a crazy son of .........a gun when you die with X tons of copper pennies.

Cheers,
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby robroy » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:31 pm

The reason that I got into penny sorting was to help me through the night when I couldn't sleep. Still can't but I now have some copper.

Through this activity I have a fine collection of wheat back pennies, a lot of old Canadian pennies, a mighty fair collection of IHC's, and a nice looking collection of Lincoln Memorial cents. Now with the start of the Shield period I have a very good collection of that. In fact I am now on my third album for the Memorial cents and contemplating an additional album for the Shields.

The copper coins that I have I am very satisified with, but being the greedy type I'm looking for more. Always more.

If the price of copper should raise by 5 - 10x (which I doubt will happen in my lifetime) I would be grateful for the potential windfall, but would still be sitting here wondering how to cash in while still sorting. The thing that I am more worried about is that if my sons get ahold of the coins and deposit them for face without trying to sell them somewhere. Such things do happen and I think of that as a modern tragedy and nightmare.
Don't look back. Something may be gaining on you.

Neither a penny or a nickel is worth face value anymore.

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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby Recyclersteve » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:50 pm

It is interesting that nobody has mentioned whether they sort by hand or use a Ryedale.
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Please note that ANY stocks I discuss, no matter how compelling, carry risk- sometimes substantial. If not prepared to buy it multiple times in modest amounts without going overboard (assuming nothing really wrong with the company), you need to learn more about the market and managing risk. Also, please research covered calls (options) as well.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby 68Camaro » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:39 am

A lot of people tend to start out of common sense, of awareness that paper money has no value but the lowly copper cent does, often from a collecting past (or present) or having had a circulating coin album as a kid. So you start with separating change from your pocket and it grows. You start actively looking for cents, then perhaps find RC and go bigger by seeking boxes, etc. It grows further and pretty soon you have a face box of copper while separating wheats. Then for whatever reason (perhaps the eyestrain and backstrain get to you) and you seek to automate, without even thinking if buying bulk makes sense. Plus you usually can ease into this by spending hundreds (knowing you can cut losses if you change your mind), rather than spending thousands and having to face the end result of what to do with a ton of coin immediately.

To the question - for the hoarder, for me the question is as yet unanswered, except that you could do worse, because at least you will have no less than face value (as long as a cent is accepted).
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby Tourney64 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:15 am

I use a Ryedale. I have sold $1000 face for $2000. I have also sold rolls of wheats for 5 cents each. I believe it is worth it to sort the pennies. Working on a project where I should be able to sell copper pennies for $4/lb, however the quantities may be on the low side. I have a fair amount of unusual pennies that could be sold at a premium.

It will be very easy to get full value of the pennies when the Penny is discontinued and the pennies can be melted for scrap value, but you need to have your hoard stacked.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby frugi » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:24 am

i always have sorted by hand. When i first started sorting, it was at a dead end job at a retail store (nobody came in to buy anything ever). I had 8 hour days of pure boredom, so I was bringing in 2 boxes of pennies every day, sorting them, returning to the bank in the evening the zincs, and picking up a couple more boxes. I did this for 2 years straight. I figured it was worth it because not only was I amassing copper at several pounds a day, but I was getting paid anyway from my hourly wage at my job.

Then by chance I discovered Canadian coins (cents & nickels). At that point, I had also lost my job. When my employer hired me, there was 250 employees at the company....Due to inability to compete with similarly made foreign products at a cheaper price, my employer was laying off employees weekly. When I lost my job there was only 12 people left at the company.

So, now unemployed I no longer had the time to sit around and hand sort cents. I had to produce stable income, and that cut into my sorting time. Through little research I found out about .980 Cu Canadian cents, and found (at the time), I could buy Canadian coins at 75% of face value practically anywhere in town at any coin store. Funny thing was is that every shop had them in bulk, and would laugh in my face when I would buy them. Little did they know the actual value.

So, it has been about 7 years now, that whenever I have some extra $$, I just go buy 50 lbs or so of Canadian cents, and hand sort those in the evenings while watching youtube or whatever. I have found out of 50 lbs. of Canadian cents, I will come up with less than 1 lb. of non-copper cents, all the rest is copper. I sort according to type, which is for me.....

Old Georges, Young Georges, Young Queens, Old Queens, 1967 Doves in BU, 1981-1982, 1983-1996 Octagons, and then everything post 1996.

In the end, I have pounds and pounds of the early stuff, and very little of anything newer. My percentages are very high of good copper because these are pennies that have just been sitting around for years in the US, so it is mostly early stuff. I have found many, many rarities, and made much profit from selling those on eBay or to realcent members. I could just buy them and let them sit unsorted, but I enjoy sorting, and find it is better to sort by type in the long run.

It was in the beginning during this time Nickel had reached I believe $25.00+/lb., and so I was buying Canadian nickels like a madman, and selling them to a refinery in bulk hundreds of pounds at a time. That one summer I made thousands of dollars between myself and another person as we drove around the midwest buying all that we could buy.

In the time since Nickel tanked I still buy them (although I pay face for them now). I hand sort again by type & condition. I save everything that isnt Ni bullion, and flip the Ni bullion to members here, and make back my investment, so what it amounts to, is a get gobs of free early Canadian nickels, steelies, BU's, prooflikes, and even some of the 1990's silver proof nickels which are out there, though pretty rare.

Even during this current time now, where copper and nickel is in the pooper, I feel like I have a great investment put together at very little risk.......when nickel and copper go back up, I will still have what I have, and if I ever need some extra $$ I can always scrap the Canadian copper and nickel locally without fear of breaking the laws governing melting US pennies and nickels.

If you ever find yourself with nothing to do, and being plain bored, nothing wrong with sitting around sorting any type of coin from any country, better than wasting time sitting on your ass glued to the TV or whatever.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby Recyclersteve » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:14 am

Frugi, thanks a lot for your detailed comments. That is interesting what you said about the dealers selling Canadian so cheaply when nickel was much higher in price than it is now.
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Please note that ANY stocks I discuss, no matter how compelling, carry risk- sometimes substantial. If not prepared to buy it multiple times in modest amounts without going overboard (assuming nothing really wrong with the company), you need to learn more about the market and managing risk. Also, please research covered calls (options) as well.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby robroy » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:33 am

I sort by hand only because I think that sorting my hand is relaxing. Besides I don't know how much space a rysdale machine would take up plus I really don't want to spend the money to acquire one. So hand sorting it is.
Don't look back. Something may be gaining on you.

Neither a penny or a nickel is worth face value anymore.

I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby hammerrob » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:24 pm

Sorting = time & effort ... if you enjoy it, great, otherwise, well, only you can decide how big a burden it is.

Hoarding = amazingly non-existant downside (even if the Russians took over tomorrow, the value of your investment would instantly increase substantially.. try redeeming your 'risk-free' treasury bonds with Mr. Putin!). Upside? Well, the reason this opportunity still exists is that the upside is very limited and the market will remain very thin until 1- laws change (or Mr. Putin takes over) and 2- the price of copper increases from current levels.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby frugi » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:23 pm

pennies & nickels are the only non-fiat currency left in the US available at face value.

(obviously this statement does not include silver eagles, and gold liberty's, since you cannot purchase them at face value)

it is only natural to save them according to Greshams Law.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby marine70 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:46 am

I hear all the replys first of all it is fun for me to go through all those pennies. It was very profitable when found a 1909S VDB it was like icing on the cake. I have been selling sorted boxes for $30 after I accumalate a substantial amount. The profit I make is better than what I get in my savings accounts, and I enjoy doing it. Being retired and having a wealth of time its right for me.
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby TheJonasCollegeFund » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:55 am

Bottom line is this......find a buyer. That makes EVRYTHING easier. You can error hunt and save up the wheats and Canadian coppers to sell separately but at the end of the day a BUYER is what it's all about to some of us. Sure is an "accomplished" feeling after backing your truck up and unloading face value coins for 1.5 or better.

I'm still looking for a local buyer to get me back sorting more again. If you DON'T have to ship....of what a pain in the but you avoid! And then a cash exchange instead of paypal...!

Who wants some copper in the Chicagoland area????? :thumbup:

So sell one and hoard one.....the more you sell...the more you can buy and hoard!
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Re: Is Sorting/Hoarding Pennies Really Worthwhile?

Postby coppernickel » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:49 pm

My serious sorting days were when I worked night shift. Had about two hours each night watched tv and sorted a box each night.

Later it became therapy. Sitting and spending time reading an audio book or listen to a movie. Mostly a little me time.

Now sort a little to keep in the habit, and the weather keeps tending toward them being useful.
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