what if the USA gets down graded again

[SilverDragon72]

Unless congress can cut spending or raises taxes enough before we hit our debt limit again we will get down graded. The rate on treasury bonds will go up and it will cost the Gov. more to borrow. Repeat the process a couple more times and no one will buy T bonds any more and we go bankrupt.

And I would like to agree with you on this but they will not cut spending and they will mask the "real" tax hikes in ways you will not know until it is too late. What most fail to realize is that there is a vast resource of wealth available to them that is very easy to take. They will take your 401K. They have tried to do it in the past. They will succeed in the future at some point. The government will pass some legislation via the IRS that all 401K holdings will be required to hold a certain percentage in T-bills in order to be considered "tax-deferred." They will sell it as a safe haven, and people will buy it. Then they will apply negative interest rates to the T-bills after the legislation has passed. Of course they will spin it to be some sort of way to tax foreign interests running to the American dollar. That allows the Fed to take a percentage of your 401K without taxing it.

Then, once that is accepted, they will work to annuitize your 401 so it lasts your whole life and you get payments forever. The general public will love it because they will get a paycheck for life! Well, we did that already. It is called Social Security and that worked out well? But the majority of the voting public will not see it until it is in place for years and they are consumed by it. Then they will have tapped the 401K honey pot, own it, and will make it impossible for you to opt out of it.

They want the 401K money. They are going to get it. best answer to defeating this is to not have money where they can get to it. First rule of gold and silver: What the government can't find, they can't steal! Keep stacking!

Some scary stuff! I believe the government could get its hands on anything it wants to. They would have to stealthfuly take the money this way, below public radar in order for this kind of scenario to happen. I hate to think about it.

[everything]

I'm sure wall street will take more from your 401k's than our government, which has plenty of other methods.

[Gobirds66]

I think the best way to put fat and lazy people to work.
is not give the food stamps and welfare.
you take the welfare away and hide their food stamps in their wook boots.

Hey wait a minute......I wonder if I could somehow get food stamps? Seems everyone else is getting them, and if I do not have to spend my own money to eat, that means I will have more for stacking. Hmm..... How to take advantage of this

[Gobirds66]

Unless congress can cut spending or raises taxes enough before we hit our debt limit again we will get down graded. The rate on treasury bonds will go up and it will cost the Gov. more to borrow. Repeat the process a couple more times and no one will buy T bonds any more and we go bankrupt.

And I would like to agree with you on this but they will not cut spending and they will mask the "real" tax hikes in ways you will not know until it is too late. What most fail to realize is that there is a vast resource of wealth available to them that is very easy to take. They will take your 401K. They have tried to do it in the past. They will succeed in the future at some point. The government will pass some legislation via the IRS that all 401K holdings will be required to hold a certain percentage in T-bills in order to be considered "tax-deferred." They will sell it as a safe haven, and people will buy it. Then they will apply negative interest rates to the T-bills after the legislation has passed. Of course they will spin it to be some sort of way to tax foreign interests running to the American dollar. That allows the Fed to take a percentage of your 401K without taxing it.

Then, once that is accepted, they will work to annuitize your 401 so it lasts your whole life and you get payments forever. The general public will love it because they will get a paycheck for life! Well, we did that already. It is called Social Security and that worked out well? But the majority of the voting public will not see it until it is in place for years and they are consumed by it. Then they will have tapped the 401K honey pot, own it, and will make it impossible for you to opt out of it.

They want the 401K money. They are going to get it. best answer to defeating this is to not have money where they can get to it. First rule of gold and silver: What the government can't find, they can't steal! Keep stacking!

Some scary stuff! I believe the government could get its hands on anything it wants to. They would have to stealthfuly take the money this way, below public radar in order for this kind of scenario to happen. I hate to think about it.

They already tried it in 2009 and 2010 but it died somewhere along the line. I think it died because they could not get it through without one party holding total control of the House, Senate, and White House after the 2010 election. They will succeed sooner or later, like when Social Security gets closer to the magical dates it no longer can sustain itself, whenever they decide that is..... Of course, they could succeed sooner, if the opportunity presents itself.

[Gobirds66]

I'm sure wall street will take more from your 401k's than our government, which has plenty of other methods.

Both will happen. You speak of them as if they are two different things. They are in bed together. The Feds will tax the profits from Wall Street, and take yours too. Wall Street will raise fees on your 401K to cover the costs of the government taking larger taxes and because you are in a company plan, you have to stay with investment company your company chooses so you are forced to pay the fees. If you opt out, you lose the match and the tax break. You will lose in so many ways. Besides, it is easier to take from you. You do not have a lobby in DC. You will not book an ex-President to come speak at their function and pay him loads of money. You will not hire congressmen and senators to consult for you after they retire from public office. You are the easy target because you can't afford to fight them. The government will take it all if you let them. Remember the saying.... What the government cannot find, they cannot steal.

[barrytrot]

I'm sure wall street will take more from your 401k's than our government, which has plenty of other methods.

Other than fraud, Wall Street can't take your money. You can try to trade unwisely and give another trader your money.

But Wall Street is actually a great tool for gaining wealth!

[Jonflyfish]

"what if the USA gets down graded again"

Just as AA became the new AAA, whatever follows will still be the gold standard by which all others are measured. Confidence is the most important aspect of the fixed income market. The tentysomething year olds that were paid to downgrade the US as a favor to gain new business in Europe have already become irrelevant. Just as they had no clue that "sub" prime was different than prime (and oddly enough the market knew to price them differently) they lose value in downgrading the US as the financial market was quick to teach them a thing or two. Make no mistake, the markets are more savy than a group of interns working at a fee for favor servicer.

Cheers!

[Engineer]

I'm sure wall street will take more from your 401k's than our government, which has plenty of other methods.

Other than fraud, Wall Street can't take your money.

I disagree. The HFT frontrunning algos are a prime example of how Wall Street can siphon a bit of your money away in every transaction.

[Silver4face]

BUMP! The biggest down grade I've ever seen or heard of is our current (and maybe future) POTUS.

[pmbug]

Fitch: USA rating AA+ (downgraded August 2023)

https://www.fitchratings.com/entity/uni ... a-80442210

Moody's: USA rating AAA with outlook negative (November 2023)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/10/economy/ ... index.html

Standard and Poors: USA rating AA+ (downgraded August 2011)

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/rating