Fake 90% Silver

Fake 90% Silver

Postby natsb88 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:42 pm

This is why I can't help but roll my eyes whenever somebody brings up the "90% is safer because nobody fakes it" argument :roll:

Here's a nice handful of fake 90%. All non-magnetic. Diameters are accurate, thicknesses are a little heavy. Weights are a little off (either way) but there is already a lot of variance in 90% depending on the wear. This kind of stuff could easily slide through in bags or rolls. Junk silver is not immune from Chinese counterfeiting by any stretch if the imagination.

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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby Thogey » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:00 pm

Bummer!

Those Washington quarters look really good.
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby Numis Pam » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:05 pm

So just what the heck are we supposed to do then?? :o :shock: :? :(
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby Thogey » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:15 pm

natsb88 wrote:This is why I can't help but roll my eyes whenever somebody brings up the "90% is safer because nobody fakes it" argument :roll:

Here's a nice handful of fake 90%. All non-magnetic. Diameters are accurate, thicknesses are a little heavy. Weights are a little off (either way) but there is already a lot of variance in 90% depending on the wear. This kind of stuff could easily slide through in bags or rolls. Junk silver is not immune from Chinese counterfeiting by any stretch if the imagination.

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Where did you get this stuff?
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby NDFarmer » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:17 pm

I never could understand that point of view either. I always kind of thought 90% would be easier to counterfeit . They don't have to be so perfect like an ASE would. They can have a little wear on them so the weight wouldn't have to be right on like a new coin would which would actually make it easier to counterfeit. There is nothing that can't be counterfeited.
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby natsb88 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:25 pm

Thogey wrote:Where did you get this stuff?


Directly from China.
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby 68Camaro » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:40 pm

Dang - someone needs to create a electronic signature contact checker.
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby beauanderos » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:44 pm

natsb88 wrote:
Thogey wrote:Where did you get this stuff?


Directly from China.

Other than the price you paid for it to corroborate they're fakes... how do we identify them? They're non-magnetic... check. The color is off? The ring test is bad? The weight is dramatically out of balance (or they are heavy?)

Inquiring minds want to know. :shock:
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby Numis Pam » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:45 pm

natsb88 wrote:
Thogey wrote:Where did you get this stuff?


Directly from China.


Why would you want to feed their greed and buy that stuff from them.... What am I missing here? :?:
Is it for educational purposes? If so... think how much more of it they will sell if we all did that... :o :?
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby thedrifter » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:01 pm

What do they sound like if you tap two of them together, or tap a counterfeit one and silver one together, or one counterfeit and one coppernickle? There must be a difference? Any idea what they are made of?
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby natsb88 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:01 pm

Numis Pam wrote:
natsb88 wrote:
Thogey wrote:Where did you get this stuff?


Directly from China.


Why would you want to feed their greed and buy that stuff from them.... What am I missing here? :?:
Is it for educational purposes? If so... think how much more of it they will sell if we all did that... :o :?

I intend to do side-by-side photos, dimensional comparisons, weights, show how to test with acid, etc. on my website. I'm not sure how me buying a very small amount to document and spread the word about could be considered "part of the problem" as you are implying :? . My little $30 order is not going to make or break China by any means, there is tons of this stuff (probably literally) out there. The only way to combat fakes is to know what to look for. The only way to know what to look for is to study it. I have fake Silvertowne bars, Pan American bars, Stagecoach bars, Sunshine bars, Prospector rounds, and ASEs for the same purpose. A comprehensive analysis will be posted on my website in the coming weeks.
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby highroller4321 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:08 pm

natsb88 wrote:

I intend to do side-by-side photos, dimensional comparisons, weights, show how to test with acid, etc. on my website. I'm not sure how me buying a very small amount to document and spread the word about could be considered "part of the problem" as you are implying :? . My little $30 order is not going to make or break China by any means, there is tons of this stuff (probably literally) out there. The only way to combat fakes is to know what to look for. The only way to know what to look for is to study it. I have fake Silvertowne bars, Pan American bars, Stagecoach bars, Sunshine bars, Prospector rounds, and ASEs for the same purpose. A comprehensive analysis will be posted on my website in the coming weeks.



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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby blackrabbit » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:11 pm

I would love to see the analysis. Thanks for helping educate people.
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby theo » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:41 pm

highroller4321 wrote:
natsb88 wrote:

I intend to do side-by-side photos, dimensional comparisons, weights, show how to test with acid, etc. on my website. I'm not sure how me buying a very small amount to document and spread the word about could be considered "part of the problem" as you are implying :? . My little $30 order is not going to make or break China by any means, there is tons of this stuff (probably literally) out there. The only way to combat fakes is to know what to look for. The only way to know what to look for is to study it. I have fake Silvertowne bars, Pan American bars, Stagecoach bars, Sunshine bars, Prospector rounds, and ASEs for the same purpose. A comprehensive analysis will be posted on my website in the coming weeks.



+1


Wow! Very scary. Thanks for doing this Nate!
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby Hawkeye » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:42 pm

I'm looking forward to the analysis. Some of those look really good and it really casts a little doubt on just about everything. I don't have a very big "stack," but it makes me wonder if I've got a fake or two floating around.
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby coppertone » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:53 pm

I find this disturbing because I don't have the tools or knowledge to readily discern fakes and I buy most of my silver off E-Bay.

Are there any known occurrences of fake Canadian 80% dollars or half dollars?
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby theo » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:08 pm

Considering this new info. The ASE could potentially be a safest coin to buy. Some good fakes are out there to be sure, but the precise weight, size and coin features makes these fakes potentially easier to spot. The variance in the 90% weights and the worn nature of most coins both strongly work in favor of the counterfeiters.

My argument against the possibility of 90% has always been that its simply not profitable (with the possible exception of Morgans). Evidently some people disagree and are willing to make the effort to fake a $2 silver dime. What does this say about the true value of silver?
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby Sheba » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:00 pm

First of all, thanks much for the effort you are making to help us 'unintelligent' little people with small means and smaller stacks, to be wary and aware of the 'true counterfiet junk' that is out there. It is MUCH appreciated!

So ... this all begs a question for the 'veterans' and 'big guys' on here .... what is the safest 1 oz of silver one can get? I've heard ASE, Maples, certain companies rounds or bars, etc. So, for the very, very little guy that can't afford to stack very much and sure can't afford to stack counterfeit junk, what is the consensus (or is there one!)

That handfull of coins you showed would have totally fooled me, for sure, had I purchased it ... even if it was from a trusted LCS.

Thanks for any help from anyone!!!
Sheba

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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby Treetop » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:11 pm

this just makes my stomach hurt. Im glad we have a member who is looking into this deeper. Im going to end up going through my stash coin by coin. Not anticipating it either! Ive mostly switched focus to full rolls of ASEs and maples because of all this. Easier to check diameter and thickness and weight. Should be good from there. Im liking the wildlife series of maples also. Premiums arent much different and perhaps less likely to be faked? I dunno, but this is unsettling. I dont expect it to mess with the price of silver to much but it will certainly mess with consumer confidence if it keeps up. I wonder how many of us have fake coins mixed into our stacks that we arent aware of. Not cool! Even buying 90% from respected sources including commercial ones has issues if the fakes are as good as those look, when someone could just mix those into a bag or lot.
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby agmoose » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:23 pm

Well this news sucks. Thanks though for the educational opportunity. I'm looking forward to the results.
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby everything » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:34 pm

Here's a bay guide to pick apart, tells you how to avoid these coins so you don't have to worry about collecting them.
http://reviews.ebay.com/15-EASIEST-WAYS ... 0005091228
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby OneBiteAtATime » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:40 pm

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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby beauanderos » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:24 pm

everything wrote:Here's a bay guide to pick apart, tells you how to avoid these coins so you don't have to worry about collecting them.
http://reviews.ebay.com/15-EASIEST-WAYS ... 0005091228

Great link, thanks for posting it :clap: :thumbup:
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby Numis Pam » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:00 am

+1 Thanks for the nice reply Nate. I get it now... I do understand. But if one becomes afraid to ask the harder questions on here, then how can one become educated? I was not implying anything about you and No malice was intended by asking... :angel: They were just some thoughts that crossed my mind. If I had not asked, I would not have received your reasonable explaination, and I would still have the questions on my mind..... Thanks for the education. :thumbup:
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Re: Fake 90% Silver

Postby scyther » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:56 am

Damn. I hate fakes. I'm sure some exists, but perhaps it would be significantly safer to buy 40%, or maybe Canadian 80%?

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You mean like a Ryedale?
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