Its all a scam.

[IdahoCopper]

The last few days I saw silver spot begin to rise. Then yesterday, the inevitable smackdown happened, again. TBTB are never going to lose control of the completely rigged silver market. Its a fantasy that they ever will.

Also, a large hoard of Ag bullion may look good on paper for an apocalypse, but its not really going to make any difference to my quality of life, because it will never get to be large enough to make any real difference.

I've had the silver bug for 40 years, off and on. The 80s Hunt Bros. run-up made me a bit of money, but it was again, not enough to really matter or make any difference in the long run.

So when the price of silver is allowed by TPTB to rise to a couple dollars over my cost-averaged basis, I'm selling the entire hoard. All of it gone. I'm done with this stupid waste of time and money.

[Market Harmony]

Where would you consider yourself to be currently on this chart?:
https://goo.gl/images/P6mHym

[Thogey]

I may be right behind you
It's better to sell before you have to.
Liquidity is a bitch with metal.

Thank goodness we have RC and BS. E-bay charges 4% on bullion sales.

[IdahoCopper]

Where would you consider yourself to be currently on this chart?:
https://goo.gl/images/P6mHym

The overall market is Denial. I'm Despondency.

[68Camaro]

I remain with the view that there are few other reasonable stores of wealth, and fewer still that are as compact or transportable, fungible. Etc. All the definitions of true money. I was never motivated by the primary objective of making a killing from a price increase. I do NOT trust the electronic financial market.

That said, I understand the despondancy, especially for those that had other hopes.

[Thogey]

I really don't mind keeping it. It is good to have a stack. It's just better to sell at a time of one's own choosing.

It is work and risk, to sell and transport. At least, a sales plan might be a good idea.

[johnbrickner]

I'm a very, very, patient person. Patient enough for this stack to help generations of mine down the road. It's insurance to me, I'm not trying to make money on it. I'm not about to drop my life, auto, renters, medical, or dental insurance. I'm not about to drop a stack. Hell's bells, you can make a grandchild a beneficiary of your IRA. Don't be afraid to take a long term view.

Ask your self, what did families who have wealth to pass on over the generations obtain for assets in times of peace and plenty and in times of war and catastrophe?

Some things have to be concentrated value in order to hide and possibly transport on your person, some things can stand right where they are and never move. This is the kind of diversification we should be thinking of. And if it's all a scam, your priorities should be well thought out.

[IdahoCopper]

I have no kids. The value locked up in the hoard could be put to some other use that improves the quality of my life in some way.

[68Camaro]

I have no kids. The value locked up in the hoard could be put to some other use that improves the quality of my life in some way.

Well, at any rate when the time is right. no better way to exchange metal than through rc. I've told my wife that if something happens to me and she needs the cash, come here for help. She knows to do that.

[Sanford02]

I tend to agree that the hoard will not likely impact my quality of life, even in dystopian future type scenarios... My main reasons for holding on to the stack at this point:

1. I don't need the cash, and I would lose money if I sold now.
2. It's more fun (although far riskier) than a savings account, and since it's harder to turn into cash, I am more likely to not spend it.
3. This is my main thought every time I buy physical metal....my Au, and to a lesser extent my Ag, are "off the books" assets that the nursing home might not get when I'm old and frail. Hopefully my kids get to keep a little of my money.

[aloneibreak]

The last few days I saw silver spot begin to rise. Then yesterday, the inevitable smackdown happened, again. TBTB are never going to lose control of the completely rigged silver market. Its a fantasy that they ever will.

Also, a large hoard of Ag bullion may look good on paper for an apocalypse, but its not really going to make any difference to my quality of life, because it will never get to be large enough to make any real difference.

I've had the silver bug for 40 years, off and on. The 80s Hunt Bros. run-up made me a bit of money, but it was again, not enough to really matter or make any difference in the long run.

So when the price of silver is allowed by TPTB to rise to a couple dollars over my cost-averaged basis, I'm selling the entire hoard. All of it gone. I'm done with this stupid waste of time and money.

quoted so as to razz you about it when down the road youre drowning in regret

but in a way i understand where youre coming from

curious if youd put a dollar amount on where your get out point is ?

i believe it was you that said that $30 would be the new $50

ive got less silver than i did 6 years ago , but this time ive got a few structured sell-points in mind for parts of the stack instead of holding out for "to the moon !"

[Rodebaugh]

Best topic I have seen in a while.

[johnbrickner]

I have no kids. The value locked up in the hoard could be put to some other use that improves the quality of my life in some way.

Makes perfect sense to me now. Were I in your shoes with no fam to be responsible for, I'd travel for the life experience of it. And with the right attitude and sharp eyes, I'm sure many things of value and opportunity could be found.

[IdahoCopper]

curious if youd put a dollar amount on where your get out point is ?

i believe it was you that said that $30 would be the new $50

My dollar cost average for Ag is around $17.60. I did say I'd sell it all at $30 a while back, as that would be a moonshot in today's markets. But now I'd sell at ~$20, plus premium added on any ASE I sold.

[NHsorter]

Goldman Sachs must be delighted with all of these broken spirits!

[Thogey]

Goldman Sachs must be delighted with all of these broken spirits!

The price doesn't bother me. Spirit is far from broken. I'm OK as far as DCA. But, it is hard to move and if you wait until your price strike, or until you need currency, you might have to sell at a discount to move your metal.

If your goal is a small stack or to build a silver castle, great. But $20,000 weighs 100 lbs. Too big, too heavy.

Silver does not earn money. "Silver is running out" is not a good reason to buy it. Worst of all silver is non-negotiable most of the time.

If you want to leave your kids something, leave them cash. They can buy silver, or use the money for something productive.

If the dollar collapses I'm not sure what liquidating 500 pounds of silver looks like.

RC predictions have been wrong. The only member I can remember that was right so far is banned from RC.

The market may be corrupt, but it is the market. It's the way of the world.

[Sanford02]

If you want to leave your kids something, leave them cash. They can buy silver, or use the money for something productive.

So, instead of a few dozen AGEs in the safe, you think I should just keep wads of Franklins in there instead? I hadn't thought of it like that. I don't want to leave cash in the bank, because the nursing home will get all that, right? So you mean physical paper cash...hmmmm, maybe it's time to rethink things.

This is a very worthwhile discussion with incredible timing for me.

[Thogey]

So, instead of a few dozen AGEs in the safe, you think I should just keep wads of Franklins in there instead?

It's not a binary choice. You can do both.

I personally will not saddle my kid with assets he has to convert, If my intention is to solely "leave" something. It does take some knowledge and connections to sell a large amount of silver if you want the best price.

Question: How many coin hoards do you know of that are "given" away after death, because the sale is a too much a project?

I will be gone. My opinions will no longer matter and I don't want to leave a hassle.

[natsb88]

The timeline can be a big factor when considering what to stash/leave for beneficiaries. The longer the timeline, the better the odds that silver/gold will outperform cash.

<5 years, maybe cash is the better choice.
5-10 years, probably a combination
10-15 years, heavier on the metal
15-20+ years, there's a very good chance that 6 ounces of silver will be worth more than a $100 bill

5 years ago, silver was ~$27.50 and gold was ~$1600. $1000 in silver would be worth $602 today, $1000 in gold would be worth $785 today, and $1000 in cash would be worth $966, using the CPI index.

10 years ago, silver was ~$13.00 and gold was ~$675. $1000 in silver would be worth $1275 today, $1000 in gold would be worth $1865 today, and $1000 in cash would be worth $819 today.

15 years ago, silver was ~$4.50 and gold was ~$310. $1000 in silver would be worth $3680 today, $1000 in gold would be worth $4060 today, and $1000 in cash would be worth $638 today.

Cash in a safe loses purchasing power to inflation, with no compounding interest to (partially) offset it.

I do think it's wise to establish a comfortable cash emergency fund before diverting savings to metals, but idle cash is not a good long-term play.

[Thogey]

5 years ago, silver was ~$27.50 and gold was ~$1600. $1000 in silver would be worth $602 today, $1000 in gold would be worth $785 today, and $1000 in cash would be worth $966, using the CPI index.

10 years ago, silver was ~$13.00 and gold was ~$675. $1000 in silver would be worth $1275 today, $1000 in gold would be worth $1865 today, and $1000 in cash would be worth $819 today.

15 years ago, silver was ~$4.50 and gold was ~$310. $1000 in silver would be worth $3680 today, $1000 in gold would be worth $4060 today, and $1000 in cash would be worth $638 today.

Great analysis. But my big booger is the liquidation process.
If you had 50K to leave your kids, off the books. Silver would be difficult for them, If you actually wanted them to use the money.

Like it or not, cash works, silver does not.


Plus, silver could go to price per pound.

[silverflake]

I am experiencing some despondency too. IdahoCopper, I am not sure how you stack (what kind of silver/gold you buy - bullion bars/rounds or bullion government coins or numismatics) but what I have done to "liven" things up a bit in the last few months is: instead of just stacking (meaning to me, taking what cash I have and buying the maximum amount of metal those dollars can buy which means I am usually getting rounds, bars or maple leafs/philharmonics on "sale"), I have started buying some numismatic stuff. Nothing extravagant because I can only buy about $300-400 at a time but I have picked up some deals on PCGS and NGC graded Morgan dollars (in MS-64) and some Peace dollars (in MS-64 and MS-65). I realize the stack doesn't grow as fast but man, they are cool to look at and in the future, they are great pieces of history to hand down to kids/grandkids. Yes, I do have kids.

I also have to agree with 68Camaro - when I think about what I could be doing with the money that I could get for my stack, it becomes a bit sobering as my distrust for the financial system far outweighs my hopelessness on the price movement of silver. Silver (and gold) to me, when I get my emotions separated from the facts, are somewhat like land. They will forever have value. That value may not be what I think it should be (manipulation?) and it may not make me rich but it is preserving some tangible buying power at all times. Even if price per ounce of silver dipped back to $5/oz like in 2002...it still has value.

IdahoCopper, I feel for you buddy. Maybe just take a break from stacking rather than selling it all. Or try some numismatics. Either way, be careful and I hope your decision is sound and fact based rather than emotional. Best of luck.

Keep stacking.....well, maybe.

[68Camaro]

Everyone should have a solid, well thought out reason to buy, what to buy, how much, and understanding of what metal is and isn't. As the percentage of their portfolio increases their level of conviction in their approach needs to increase. If not they either need to study until they get a conviction, or look elsewhere for the balance of their portfolio.

That said I think we're near the blood in the streets level - maybe we've already been there. The worst time to sell is then. But its the best time to buy.

[68Camaro]

PS. I wrote myself a rationale and prediction 5 years ago, and while in it I caveated that timing events are difficult (and the past 8-15 years especially so), I wrote that I thought we would see a major market disruption by 2015, probably by 2018, and almost certainly by 2020. I was clearly wrong on the first date and the second date is looking iffy. But if things hold together past 2020 I won't be disappointed because life without those disruptions has to be better than with them.

And it doesn't change my approach. Its insurance. And if disruption happens, it'll be nearly too late to compensate by that point.

Many posts on this topic already. I'm not saying anything new here. But if you're new to rc, while a little metal is good insurance your priority should be on water, food, self defense, safe shelter, finding like minded people you can trust who bring something to the table, etc. After you get those needs covered, go back to stacking.

[Copper Catcher]

I am glad this post is here! I think you are 100% correct all the markets are rigged and it is a scam. Regardless of this "fact" what is a person to do. The purchasing power of the dollar continues to go down.


Some might argue the point that the chart doesn’t take into account wages could be rising or falling so the net effect might not be as bad as it seems. I am sure folks would also say that our overall standard of living has increased over time.

It is my belief that within five years or less they will do away with the $100 dollar bill claiming only drug dealers or money launders use this currency. The banks have long been concerned about bank runs so having a cashless society is not out of the question so the Ponzi scheme can continue. Every penny I have earned I have paid taxes on and so this whole notion of trying to hide something from the government in my option will only end in failure. The government knows what you income is if you file taxes. Every post, email, electronic transaction and literal movement of every person can be tracked without a whole lot of trouble. Also I don't think anyone on Realcent has discussed the requirement of needing a "Real ID" in the near future: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_A ... n_timeline Plus your facial recognition will be your boarding pass soon...Just ask Jet Blue and Delta: http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/31/technol ... cognition/
Sorry for the sidebar rant...

In a nut shell it all come down to who and what you trust. I see nothing wrong with diversification, be it extra food, precious metals or whatever as long as the money you are spending is money you can afford to spend and not need later on for emergencies or other things. What is sad is that fifty-seven percent of Americans don’t have enough cash to cover a $500 unexpected expense, according to a survey from Bankrate: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americ ... y-expense/ Like with so many things it all comes down to living within if not below your means. In America that seems to be difficult for not only individuals but the government as well.

I understand being frustrated about holding a non income producing asset like precious metals. But if you turn it all to cash then what are you going to do with the money. What are you going to buy that is not rigged and will hold or have the potential to increase in value over time? When you figure that one out please let me know!

P.S. Feel free to send me a list of what you are selling, inquiring minds want to know!

[IdahoCopper]

I have a rental house I could almost pay off by selling the hoard. The annual return on that would be about 9%, instead of nonperforming metal.

Im not ready to sell yet, spot is too low. So no list yet.