90% junk premiums are crazy high

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Apmex now selling 90% junk silver for $8.99 over spot

https://www.apmex.com/product/27/90-silver-coins-100-face-value-bag

2-3 years ago I was urging people to buy it when it was $0.29-0.50 cents over spot.

[68Camaro]

$9 over makes ASEs look better... Lol

[Chaboo]

I know a guy that traded several thousand face in 90% for 1oz .999 rounds to take advantage of the premiums. Very smart.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

I know a guy that traded several thousand face in 90% for 1oz .999 rounds to take advantage of the premiums. Very smart.

Even with the high premium, I'd rather have the fractional 90% dimes and quarters... they're not making any more of it.

[wheeler_dealer]

Apmex is not the only one with high premiums. During the "silver squeeze " recall how many inventory shortages (real or imagined) dealers experienced. Buyers were willing to pay up for anything. The dealers were selling everything. Many were re buying at slight premiums to market to resupply. Then they were caught with the inventory when the euphoria faded. They have buyers at these "premiums" or they would adjust their price to market conditions.
Personally I see this as a positive in that it establishes a baseline of price for inventory.
The big dealers will hold out for the price they want.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Apmex is not the only one with high premiums. During the "silver squeeze " recall how many inventory shortages (real or imagined) dealers experienced. Buyers were willing to pay up for anything. The dealers were selling everything. Many were re buying at slight premiums to market to resupply. Then they were caught with the inventory when the euphoria faded. They have buyers at these "premiums" or they would adjust their price to market conditions.
Personally I see this as a positive in that it establishes a baseline of price for inventory.
The big dealers will hold out for the price they want.

I only posted one time to WSS... I warned them NOT to buy into the "silver squeeze" hype. I think they deleted my post and my account. IMO, it is the WSS "buy at any price" crowd who is mainly responsible for premiums rising so rapidly and why premiums remain high. The bullion dealers are loving it though.

Even though WSS membership is at 217,000 now, many who bought at the $30 level do not seem to be active participants anymore, some are bots and spam accounts. I would like to know how much advertising revenue that site pulls in on a monthly basis. Which makes me wonder... are the owners of WSS site getting paid to pump silver and junior silver miners? It would not surprise me.

[Recyclersteve]

What does WSS stand for?

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

What does WSS stand for?

Wall St Silver. https://www.reddit.com/r/Wallstreetsilver/new/

[JerrySpringer]

I only posted one time to WSS... I warned them NOT to buy into the "silver squeeze" hype. I think they deleted my post and my account. IMO, it is the WSS "buy at any price" crowd who is mainly responsible for premiums rising so rapidly and why premiums remain high. The bullion dealers are loving it though.

Even though WSS membership is at 217,000 now, many who bought at the $30 level do not seem to be active participants anymore, some are bots and spam accounts. I would like to know how much advertising revenue that site pulls in on a monthly basis. Which makes me wonder... are the owners of WSS site getting paid to pump silver and junior silver miners? It would not surprise me.

Nothing is un-possible nowadays for online "influencing". It was amazing how fast Congress acted on the whole WallStreetBets fiasco back in January 2021. If flash mob mentality can tip scales of any "institution" status quo, it gets A LOT of attention real fast. (Some have commented that the Occupy Wall Street thing got infiltrated and diffused as conveniently [ we could see another one of those if things go sour again] ).

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Nothing is un-possible nowadays for online "influencing". It was amazing how fast Congress acted on the whole WallStreetBets fiasco back in January 2021. If flash mob mentality can tip scales of any "institution" status quo, it gets A LOT of attention real fast. (Some have commented that the Occupy Wall Street thing got infiltrated and diffused as conveniently [ we could see another one of those if things go sour again] ).

I always thought the OWS protests ended due to exhaustion and cold weather.

[natsb88]

IMO, it is the WSS "buy at any price" crowd who is mainly responsible for premiums rising so rapidly and why premiums remain high. The bullion dealers are loving it though.

We saw big premium increases for a while after silver fell from near $50 back in 2011. We saw premiums like this when it dipped to $12 in March 2020. Both long before WSS was a thing. I think this is more indicative of the modern spot price being increasingly determined by huge institutional bankers trading paper contracts at volumes much greater than what metal exists in the warehouse, and less by actual producers and consumers of metal trading tangible goods or executing physical delivery on contracts. Going back about 15 years now, each time we've had a notable drop in the spot price, the going rate for retail physical silver has decoupled from the spot price at a greater magnitude and for a longer period of time than the previous event.

Gold and silver spot prices generally used to move opposite of the rest of the stock market on bad financial news as investors sought stability. Now the spot prices follow the rest of the market down big and down fast, but there is still a significant spike in demand for retail physical metals. Physical buyers end up paying the same or even more than they would have before the spot price dropped. Investors are still seeking silver and gold on bad financial news, but the paper spot price isn't reflecting that demand, as retail physical buyers are a drop in the bucket relative to modern institutional paper trading.

The physical premium increase is also across the board. Premiums from mints to wholesalers, wholesalers to dealers, and dealers to buyers are all up. It's also reflected in the premiums paid for secondary market materials.

I guess that's all to say, considering that one market is dominated by big banks trading paper contracts for mostly imaginary silver (a few of which have been caught manipulating the market), and the other is cash trading hands for physical metal with delivery, I think it's more accurate to call the spot price artificially low than it is to call the physical price artificially high.

Even though WSS membership is at 217,000 now, many who bought at the $30 level do not seem to be active participants anymore, some are bots and spam accounts. I would like to know how much advertising revenue that site pulls in on a monthly basis. Which makes me wonder... are the owners of WSS site getting paid to pump silver and junior silver miners? It would not surprise me.

WSB and WSS for sure have their share of low-information, impulsive, and reckless participants. That's kind of the point of those subreddits . But that's not how Reddit works in terms of revenue. Subreddit mods don't "own" anything on Reddit and don't get any advertising revenue from Reddit. A subreddit is more like you starting a thread here on Realcent. Your thread could go viral, get ten million replies, and bring in a million new members, but you wouldn't get a dime from Realcent for that. As far as I know it's still against Reddit terms for mods to get paid. They are supposed to be strictly volunteer. But what is possible is individual members with a lot of influence making secret deals with sponsors to hype their products or services. Communities tend to frown upon that behavior and call it out when it becomes apparent, but it happens. I don't keep up with WSS enough to really see if it's happening there.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Thanks Nate, I appreciate your input and insights.

I realize premiums have been high a few times in the past, but this is the longest I've seen them stay at these elevated levels. Is this the new normal? Will we soon have $10 silver, but with a $100-200 premiums?

I generally read posts on WSS to gauge sentiment. A few posts are useful info, but most of them are silly memes and members posting their "stacks"... the latter (IMO) is foolish to post on the internet because of the metadata attached to them.

[natsb88]

I realize premiums have been high a few times in the past, but this is the longest I've seen them stay at these elevated levels. Is this the new normal? Will we soon have $10 silver, but with a $100-200 premiums?

I do think we'll continue to see the premiums grow higher and for longer each cycle. They settle down if the spot price stays low enough long enough. But it takes longer every time it happens. I'm starting to see some wholesale generic 1 oz rounds come up for $2.50 - $3.00 over spot now, but 90% is still +$7 to +$8.

[Know Common Cents]

Silver has always been a political football that gets kicked around most every day of the week. We love it when it's on the rise, return to disliking it when it seems to be in a perpetual doldrum and begin (figuratively speaking) wondering why in the world we even bothered at all to devote so much time and brain power to even thinking about it. Seems like many other things and people we encounter on a daily basis, eh?

Oh yes...we WILL have our day in all regards. Just not at the same time...

Sky-high premiums for silver and gold are here to stay.

[wheeler_dealer]

JM Bullion 42.28 shipped for a cull Morgan with Silver at 19.08 currently.
Just a slight premium.

[cwgii]

I looked at some rounds today.$22.49 seemed like a more realistic markup. They were Morgan copies.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Apmex 90% now $10.25 over spot

Notice how they removed the "$ over spot" explanation...

https://www.apmex.com/product/27/90-silver-coins-100-face-value-bag

JM Bullion price is even higher at $11.00 over spot.

https://www.jmbullion.com/90-silver-washington-quarters-100fv/

SD Bullion is out of stock... https://sdbullion.com/90-percent-silver-100-dollar-face-value-bag

[JerrySpringer]

I noticed that the Walmart Apmex sales page has had the premiums go up. Maybe more folks buying there and Apmex decided to raise them? The premiums were in the $4 range. They are now in the $6 range.

[Doctor Steuss]

JM Bullion 42.28 shipped for a cull Morgan with Silver at 19.08 currently.
Just a slight premium.

Ummmm... wut?

Great googely-moogely. That's more than AU Morgans where going for back in 2011-12.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

JM Bullion price is even higher at $11.00 over spot.

https://www.jmbullion.com/90-silver-washington-quarters-100fv/

Now JM Bullion is out of stock. Something's going on.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Apmex just raised the premium to $11.00 over spot. They realize all the other majors are out of stock.

[wheeler_dealer]

$41.15 shipped with tax for "cull" peace dollar currently.
Out of stock on Morgan cull.

[wheeler_dealer]

I called around to local shops to check inventory availability and current spreads. No one answered. Unusual for a Friday. Anyone willing to share their findings about recent experiences at their local brick and mortar coin dealer regarding price/availability? Thanks

[JadeDragon]

Nothing is un-possible nowadays for online "influencing". It was amazing how fast Congress acted on the whole WallStreetBets fiasco back in January 2021. If flash mob mentality can tip scales of any "institution" status quo, it gets A LOT of attention real fast. (Some have commented that the Occupy Wall Street thing got infiltrated and diffused as conveniently [ we could see another one of those if things go sour again] ).

I always thought the OWS protests ended due to exhaustion and cold weather.

And they figured out they were changing nothing. Waste of time.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

I always thought the OWS protests ended due to exhaustion and cold weather.

And they figured out they were changing nothing. Waste of time.

Most protests end this way.