Realcent.org

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:11 pm**

Hi friends,
Can somebody tell me something about this coin? I've been trying hardly to get good information about it on Google. Some people think that the 1863 date is not year of issue but some historical date the coin commemorates. Some think it refers to the defeat of the Naximilian troops in Mexico. The design seems to be modern, so other people believe it must have been issued between 1950 and 1980. It seems it's not a coin made for circulation but it's made of gold. If someone has precise information about it, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thanks in advance,
Pedro

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:38 pm**

Have you had it tested that it is gold? Did find this http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1863-pueblos-unidos-americanos-mexico-118272190

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:26 pm**

And this http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id,192504138,var,-MEXIQUE--MEXICO-OU-USA--MEDIO-PESO-1863-LIBERTAD-JUSTICIA--GOLD--OR-EN-ACHAT-IMMEDIAT-,language,E.html#description

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:28 pm**

Thanks for the links. I also found them. Indeed, the image I attached is from delcampe.net because I have not the real coin here. Mine is in not so good condition, and the color looks different in the attached image I sent. My coin looks more gold yellow, and the one shown in delcampe looks more copper yellow. I suppose it depends on the color profile used by the camera. As soon as I can I will show pictures of mine. Anyways, all the sales info I've found on the net says it's gold

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:55 pm**

Could be a marriage token

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:54 pm**

Maybe, there is another coin of the same type out there dated 1866 instead of 1863, but with the indian head looking front. (Images attached). I'm waiting for the photos of MY coin to arrive by email, as it is located in another part of the country
Thanks,
Pedro

: similar coin obverse; samer_obv.jpg (198.6 KiB) Viewed 3876 times

: similar coin reverse; samer_rev.jpg (203.88 KiB) Viewed 3876 times

Posted: **Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:03 am**

I'm sure pcm has seen this already. For everyone's benefit, excuse the grammar, below is quoted responses from Jerry Adams and Robert Hoge translated from a German coin collecting forum.

See Email a Token capacity find his homepage (and his paintings) on google, jerry adams tokens,

Dear Sigi,
I have been unable to find anything definitive on the coin-token dated 1863 you sent photos of. HOWEVER, from the diework, and the pictorial representations of Both the eagle, and the Indian, my best guess is thatthis piece Does not dateFrom 1863. The eagle, Appears to be more like a US eagle, Rather Than an eagle of Mexico , Uruguay, or any other South or Central American country. The representation of the "Indian" or native American, Appears to me to be a recent artistic representation. Artistic representations of natives in the pre-1900 era and even in the era of 1900 thru 1930s, were more "romantic" or of the "noble savage" as they say here. For Example to take the representation of the Indian on the US "Indian Cents" of 1863-1908, or the US Five Dollar gold coin of the early 1900s. My best guess, is thatthis numismatic item which made Perhaps in the timeframe of 1950 to 1980. It evidently what trying to make a statement about the Entire area of Both North and South America, and the United Cities and countries, and Liberty and justice. The date, 1863, must have had some Particular significance, and to me the date alone, Would Be The Key That might lead someone to find Exactly where and why it what made. I doubt someone just picked a date of 1863 out of thin air. One of my friends who is a numismatic researcher, Believes it has something to do with the defeat of the armies of Maximillian in Mexico
about that time. I am sorry I was not able to find to exact attribution for the piece, as it is a real enigma.
Best wishes,

Jerry Adams
USA

North and from the curator of the ANA with the most comprehensive collections of South American coins and:

Dear Mr. Stenzel:
Thank you for your inquiry. Regrettably, I do not recognize this
item, and I can not give you information relative to it. I believe it
Must be some kind of fantasy item, Perhaps a souvenir or gaming
token. Are you Certain it is made of real gold?
Sincerely yours,

Robert W. Hoge
Curator of North American Coins and Currency
American Numismatic Society

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:25 am**

Here are the actual photos of my coin:

: obverse; anverso.jpg (333.47 KiB) Viewed 3844 times

: reverse; reverso.jpg (357.71 KiB) Viewed 3844 times

Thank you very much for the comments and info provided up until now.
Pedro

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:14 pm**

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_in ... _in_Mexico

Some possible historical connections. In the 1860s the French were trying to take over Mexico. It was the last major push by a European power to exert control over the Americas or to seat a monarch in the Western hemisphere.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:36 am**

There is also an important event in North America dating 1863 and it is the Red Cloud war. The war was fought over control of the Powder River Country in north-central Wyoming.In 1863, European Americans had blazed the Bozeman Trail through the heart of the traditional territory of the Cheyenne, Arapaho, and Lakota. It was the shortest and easiest route from Fort Laramie and the Oregon Trail to the Montana gold fields. From 1864 to 1866, the trail was traversed by about 3,500 miners, emigrant settlers and others. The emigrants competed with the Indians for the diminishing resources near the trail... source wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cloud%27s_War.
There is another type the same coin which shows a date of 1866, as shown in a previous photo. The problem is that the motto on these coins is in Spanish and most probably commemorates an event that took place in Mexico, and I agree with you in that the war of the French intervention is the most probable one. But both the Indian head and the eagle seem to be North American symbols in their design. Still an enigma. I will continue researching.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:48 am**

Just aesthetically speaking, it appears to be more of a Mexican/Southwest region Indian rather than a high plains Indian like the Sioux or Lakota. The central plains US Indians are typically portrayed with much sharper noses and jaw lines, such as the US "Buffalo Nickel".

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