Good foreign copper opportunity

[Cerulean]

If you can get your hands on 1cent and 5cent coins from Trinidad & Tobago for cheap, do it.

These coins have been steadily minted since 1966, in bronze, and the composition has not changed since. I ran a magnet past my 1966-2007 collection of T&T coins, and not a single one of them was attracted.

The 1cent coin is 17.8mm in diameter, weighs 1.95 grams, and is worth USD$0.0016. The break-even copper spot price for this coin is $0.36/lb. Divide the current copper spot price by that number, and you get the number of times over face that the coin's copper content is worth (subject to exchange rate fluctuations). At the current 1 TTD = 0.15625 USD and copper at 4.1416/lb, these coins have a melt value of 1140% of face value. Current melt value is 1.78 cents USD, so if you can buy them for less than 2 cents apiece, you're coming out ahead in copper.

The 5cent coin is 21.0mm in diameter, weighs 3.30 grams, and is worth USD$0.0078. The break-even copper spot price for this coin is $1.07/lb. Divide the current copper spot price by that number, and you get the number of times over face that the coin's copper content is worth (subject to exchange rate fluctuations). At the current 1 TTD = 0.15625 USD and copper at 4.1416/lb, these coins have a melt value of 386% of face value. Current melt value is 3.01 cents USD, so if you can buy them for less than 3 cents apiece, you're coming out ahead in copper.

In other words, the price of copper would have to drop to nearly 25% of current levels for these coins to lose their copper bullion value. The 5cent coin is worth less than a bronze US cent, yet contains more copper. And the best part is... there is absolutely no sorting necessary! The composition has remained bronze for over 40 years without interruption.

[Cerulean]

Also, while I have the spreadsheet open....

UK 1/2 pennies 1971-1984
UK pennies 1971-1991
UK 2 pence 1971-1991
...all currently have a melt value of 192% of face value.

The large-size 5p and 10p coins 1968-1989 are hovering at 90% of face for their copper-nickel content.

Denmark currently (1992-present) makes a bronze coin that still circulates, the 50 ore coin. It weighs 4.3g, which is about 4 cents of copper. However, at current exchange rates, it's worth 10 cents. With a melt of 40% of face, it's not worth hoarding yet. The 25 ore coin is bronze, but was discontinued in 2008. It has 2.6 cents of copper in it, if you can find it.

Greek 1 and 2 drachma coins 1988-2000 were copper, and contain 2.5 cents and 3.4 cents of copper, respectively. Both of these coins were demonetized in 2002.

Japan's 10-yen coin has been made of bronze since 1959 without interruption. It's about the size of a US quarter, and weighs 4.5 grams. That's about 4 cents of copper, but it has a face value of about 12.4 cents. Less than 30% of face isn't worth it.

Taiwan's 1/2 dollar coin has been bronze since 1981. It weights 3 grams, which is about 2.7 cents of copper. The face value is about 1.75 cents USD. That means the melt over face is 150%, making these coins worth holding.

Sweden's 50 ore coin has been bronze since 1992. it weighs 3.7 grams, which is about 3.4 cents of copper. The face value is about 8.2 cents. Less than 50%... not worth it.

Norway's 50 ore coin has been bronze since 1996. It weighs 3.6 grams, which is about 3.3 cents of copper. The face value is about 9.4 cents. Even worse than the Swedish 50 ore coin.

Pakistan's 1 rupee coin was bronze from 1998 to 2006. It weighs 4 grams, which is about 3.7 cents of copper. The face value is 1.2 cents, for a melt over face of 310%. These are worth saving if you can get them.

[AGgressive Metal]

The large-size 5p and 10p coins 1968-1989 are hovering at 90% of face for their copper-nickel content.

They no longer have a face value, so save them!

[mflugher]

hmm anyone want to help sponsor a trip to trinidad? I have a friend who has contacts in the Ship industry so I can probably get a boat to haul this copper out of country with.

First I'd have to research their coin export laws.

[uthminsta]

I love this idea. My thoughts:

- Have to consider the difficulty in obtaining a significant amount of these coins from overseas without eating up the profit through shipping or other means of transfer. Or the slim possibility that one would be able to purchase the coins for less than 2 cents from a dealer... most coin dealers are not really interested in selling even the junk world coins for less than a dime each. But maybe I'm not thinking about other sources for getting quantities of these coins.

- Another approach would be to compare their value, percentage-wise, to the U.S. or Canadian coin they would be "mistaken for." Does that make sense? I mean, what kind of rolls would they be found in? A quick look at the August copper tracking thread http://www.realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7368 shows that about $8000 face of copper cents have been found. Assuming a 20% copper rate, that means about $40,000 have been searched. And not a single Trinidad and Tobago coin was found by that. But maybe, because they are smaller, they would be mixed in with dimes. So I checked the "August halves and other" thread http://www.realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7369 and there was one Trinidad cent found, out of $21,270.10 in dimes searched. Hmmm... that doesn't work. One Great Britain penny, but it was a '93. Back to the penny thread, there were 9 British pennies found (which doesn't really make sense because they would be more likely in nickel rolls rather than cent rolls, because they are larger), but only 2 of the 9 found were old enough to be the bronze ones. Hmmm... that doesn't work either.

Seems all I am doing is shooting holes in this. That's not what I intended, these are just the thoughts that came to mind when I read the topic. Let's keep exploring this though... because I LOVE getting world copper. So... WHERE DO YOU ALL FIND IT?

[Verbane]

A quick look at the August copper tracking thread http://www.realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7368 shows that about $8000 face of copper cents have been found. Assuming a 20% copper rate, that means about $40,000 have been searched. And not a single Trinidad and Tobago coin was found by that. But maybe, because they are smaller, they would be mixed in with dimes....

...Seems all I am doing is shooting holes in this. That's not what I intended, these are just the thoughts that came to mind when I read the topic. Let's keep exploring this though... because I LOVE getting world copper. So... WHERE DO YOU ALL FIND IT?

You have to remember that the tracking thread is just for hand sorting, and not every one reports, me included. I found a 1970 T&T cent last week in a penny roll. As far as size, you would be more likely to find these in CWR. I also pulled a 2009 Bahama cent this week from a CWR penny roll and thats slightly smaller than the T&T cent.

[uthminsta]

You have to remember that the tracking thread is just for hand sorting, and not every one reports, me included. I found a 1970 T&T cent last week in a penny roll. As far as size, you would be more likely to find these in CWR. I also pulled a 2009 Bahama cent this week from a CWR penny roll and thats slightly smaller than the T&T cent.

Right, but my point was, from those searching and reporting, there's not much being found... from $40,000 cents and over $20,000 dimes, one was reported.

But you raise a good point. Some are out there, in rolls. As far as the T&T cent, in particular, consider where they would be. My guess: for CWR, they are probably more likely in cent rolls... similar APPEARANCE. For BWR, they are probably more likely in dime rolls... similar SIZE. Unless the machines would sift them out...

[Cerulean]

Here's some math...

$1,000 USD will buy $6,360 TTD.

$6,360 TTD will buy you 636,000 1-cent coins.

636,000 1-cent coins equals 1,240.2 kg of copper.

1,240.2 kg of copper has a melt value of $9,434.

Deduct airfare, lodging, other travel expenses and the original $1,000 you started with, and the rest is pure profit.

I wonder how long it will be before the Trinidadians close this exploitable loophole. As of 2010, their 1-cent and 5-cent coins are still bronze.

EDIT: There is a regulated limit to how much TTD cash you can export at once. "The export of local currency is limited to TT$200."

[68Camaro]

Good idea. I think I have one, but I think it was on a TD bank magnet, so they may have changed composition - I'll check tonight, maybe I'm mistaken.

If you all figure out a way to get them en masse, let me know.

I suspect the population of RC already has more US cents hoarded than T&T has ever minted of theirs, so what they have won't go very far.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Here's some math...

$1,000 USD will buy $6,360 TTD.

$6,360 TTD will buy you 636,000 1-cent coins.

636,000 1-cent coins equals 1,240.2 kg of copper.

1,240.2 kg of copper has a melt value of $9,434.

Deduct airfare, lodging, other travel expenses and the original $1,000 you started with, and the rest is pure profit.

I wonder how long it will be before the Trinidadians close this exploitable loophole. As of 2010, their 1-cent and 5-cent coins are still bronze.

EDIT: There is a regulated limit to how much TTD cash you can export at once. "The export of local currency is limited to TT$200."

Darn! I knew there had to be a catch.

Maybe I could borrow IdahoCopper's sailboat with the hollowed out keel, then sail to Trinidad, then pull the boat into dry dock for "repairs", then fill the hollowed out keel with TTD Hummingbirds, then put the boat back into the water, then get busted by the Trinidadian customs officials, then..... Oh, wait! I hadn't planned on that one!

[68Camaro]

Good idea. I think I have one, but I think it was on a TD bank magnet, so they may have changed composition - I'll check tonight, maybe I'm mistaken.

Nope - don't have any. Just about every other island, but not that one. Bermuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Caymans, Dominica, etc

[TwoAndAHalfCents]

I found a Trinadad and Tobago cent in a penny roll this week. I hand sort and I do post in the hand sorting thread so there will be at least one reported for this year.

[uthminsta]

$6,360 TTD will buy you 636,000 1-cent coins.

I think it would be fun to see you do this particular step in the equation. I went to an exchange bank in a Guatemala airport and they looked at me like I had three eyes when I explained that I ONLY WANTED COINS.

[.02FYI]

I think the bulk coins sell for near 6 lb. So the dealers want 10 cents coin but normally more like 20 cents imho.