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Dear Market Harmony,

As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency, and coins policy to help foster that confidence—this update may impact your coin listings.
Starting May 30, all new listings and relistings in coin categories will need to meet the following requirements:
• First, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numeric grade in their listing title or item description only if the coin grading company meets certain objective standards.* Coins that haven't been graded by these companies will be considered raw or ungraded. Currently, eBay has determined that only the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) meet these standards.
• Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now, reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.
Good 'Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30th to comply with the revised policy. Listings that don't comply by these dates will be ineligible for relist or renewal and will be removed.
We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. These new requirements are an important step toward meeting these marketplace demands. Take action now to ensure your listings comply with these new changes.
As always, thank you for selling on eBay,
eBay Selling Team
*These standards will be posted on eBay's website shortly.

I believe this will open up a lawsuit against eBay from dealers, ANACS and ICG. What were they thinking?

Yeah my first thought was, "what about anacs?"

Nice work feeBay.

In light of the fact that you still see people selling a dozen rolls of pennies that happen to have a silver dime on one end, and other related madness, this simply seems bizarre to me. If they want to clean up their act in the coin section, this is far from where they need to go.

My opinion is ANACS made a deal with the devil when they became the official certification coin of QVC. They had to drop their quality a LOT to do that and now they are about to pay for it.

Re "dozens of rolls of cents with a dime on the end": eBay is far less concerned with $20 sales than $5,000 sales apparently.

It's not bizarre, it is just business. eBay always lies and claims they are "doing what buyers/sellers want". The reality is they are just making their business better *in their opinions*.

My opinion is this is the first solid idea they have had in years. This is one I fully support, unlike all the other changes they have made.

This one actually does help consumers.

Market Harmony wrote:Dear Market Harmony,

As coin collecting continues to grow and thrive on eBay, customers have told us time and again that knowing they can buy and sell with confidence is important. We'll be updating eBay's Stamps, currency, and coins policy to help foster that confidence—this update may impact your coin listings.
Starting May 30, all new listings and relistings in coin categories will need to meet the following requirements:
• First, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numeric grade in their listing title or item description only if the coin grading company meets certain objective standards.* Coins that haven't been graded by these companies will be considered raw or ungraded. Currently, eBay has determined that only the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) meet these standards.
• Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now, reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.
Good 'Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30th to comply with the revised policy. Listings that don't comply by these dates will be ineligible for relist or renewal and will be removed.
We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. These new requirements are an important step toward meeting these marketplace demands. Take action now to ensure your listings comply with these new changes.
As always, thank you for selling on eBay,
eBay Selling Team
*These standards will be posted on eBay's website shortly.

I believe this will open up a lawsuit against eBay from dealers, ANACS and ICG. What were they thinking?

Lawsuit, I disagree. I believe eBay has the right to set their policy to include or exclude whoever they want and for whatever reason as long as they are consistent.

All these different third party grading companies, many which are not worth the plastic they put the coins in, have done tremendous harm to thousands and thousands of individuals causing millions of dollars in losses buying coins that were over graded or cleaned.

Mike you are a stand up guy, but unfortunately for every one of you I feel like there are five other coin dealers who take every opportunity they can to rip people off.

I bet today I could walk into any coin show with 20 Morgan silver dollars and go to twenty dealers and hand them each one coin and tell them I am selling the coin and would like $15 for it. I would bet you less than half would stop me and say this coin is worth more than that. Which is sad! So, I think for one time eBay is trying to clean up the mess and protect the customer.

Let’s face it most coin dealers feel no responsibility in making sure customers are getting a good deal. Here is what I define a good deal.

If I purchase a coin from a dealer at X I would like to think that if six months later if wanted to sell the coin to another collector it would still be worth X. However I also would like to believe that if I took the coin to another dealer the least I’d be offered might be X minus maybe 10% but not half the value of what I’d paid.

Also, I’d like to think that dealers would stop selling crap that has virtually no real collectable value and quit pretending it does. Let’s be honest too many state quarters and presidential dollars were made for them to ever be really collectable. Yet, how many sets have been sold to parents and grandparents at outrageous prices? All this does is kill the hobby and make people angry in the long run....

Treetop wrote:In light of the fact that you still see people selling a dozen rolls of pennies that happen to have a silver dime on one end, and other related madness, this simply seems bizarre to me. If they want to clean up their act in the coin section, this is far from where they need to go.

Much like how they allow bootlegs of DVD's and other smaller stuff; it's not worth their time and effort to nuke them AND it contributes to their bottom line.

I like the part where they say

"We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. "

So is the buyer complaining he's not held to high enough standards or is ebay Full of...... as usual?
Kind of like those rich guys who complain they're not paying enough taxes but take every deduction they can make up......

And the other side of this; if gold really does get to $2500 then people will have to either give up selling
on ebay or start tossing some serious money at NGC. - I'm sure nobody here would mind giving up a couple of hundred bucks per coin
but what about everybody else?
I guess that could also apply to a 10 oz lot if silver ever actually hit 250.
What would it cost to have 3 rolls of mercs or rosies graded?
Now that's a bargain - at $10 a coin it would only cost $1500.00 for the grading so you could sell then on ebay (@ 250 per toz) for 2650 or so, then you can give ebay and paypal another $250 or so in fees grossing $1750 for them and about 900 for you.

fb101 wrote:I like the part where they say

"We've heard from both buyers and sellers that they'd like to see more coins on eBay graded by companies who meet high standards. "

So is the buyer complaining he's not held to high enough standards or is ebay Full of...... as usual?
Kind of like those rich guys who complain they're not paying enough taxes but take every deduction they can make up......

And the other side of this; if gold really does get to $2500 then people will have to either give up selling
on ebay or start tossing some serious money at NGC. - I'm sure nobody here would mind giving up a couple of hundred bucks per coin
but what about everybody else?
I guess that could also apply to a 10 oz lot if silver ever actually hit 250.
What would it cost to have 3 rolls of mercs or rosies graded?
Now that's a bargain - at $10 a coin it would only cost $1500.00 for the grading so you could sell then on ebay (@ 250 per toz) for 2650 or so, then you can give ebay and paypal another $250 or so in fees grossing $1750 for them and about 900 for you.

As long as you start your auction at $2499.99 or below and take a risk of no reserve or buy it now, you do not have to have them graded per the policy:

Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now, reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.

I have to wonder how the policy will affect certain coin discoveries....weren't many Sacajawea Dollar Coin varieties and whatnot were slabbed first by ANACS, ICG and SEGS?

barrytrot wrote:
This one actually does help consumers.

How? If you dont want something, dont buy it.

Treetop wrote:

barrytrot wrote:
This one actually does help consumers.

How? If you dont want something, dont buy it.

Further... I fail to see how telling people a coin must be graded by specific companies would inspire any consumer respect. Im sure anyone here could list several very shady things that go on through ebay. would ANYONE here have ever listed that coins with a starting price over 2500 were raw coins or graded by companies I dont trust?

Treetop wrote:

barrytrot wrote:
This one actually does help consumers.

How? If you dont want something, dont buy it.

That pretty much sums up what I was thinking.

What about those that don't need their peepee held for them anymore? Hands off eBay, I got this.

NHsorter wrote:

Treetop wrote:

barrytrot wrote:
This one actually does help consumers.

How? If you dont want something, dont buy it.

That pretty much sums up what I was thinking.

What about those that don't need their peepee held for them anymore? Hands off eBay, I got this.

By that same token I suppose that "Gold hotel buyers" are fair also?

They aren't.

Ignorance is running rampant and unfortunately the ignorant need a little protection. Sure education would be superior to protection, but until that kicks in protection is required.

Barry, that sounds like something the other Barry(Obama) would say. eBay dishin out some "coin justice". I prefer free markets.

I will say though that I believe that eBay should be able to make their own rules as they see fit and users can vote with their feet. But that does not mean that I have to like all their rules. I just think they went too far on this one.

Id hazard a guess that the majority who are buying numi coins worth 2500 have a good idea what they are doing..

on the other hand there are scores of low level scams on ebay, all of which is apparently ok to them. by dollar amounts Id also wager a good amount more money went to shady hands through those low level scams then anyone selling an ungraded coin, or one from the wrong grading service.

Perhaps something along the lines of having any single coins valued that high have a grace period you can return the coin, if it is not genuine would make a better fit.

Treetop wrote:Id hazard a guess that the majority who are buying numi coins worth 2500 have a good idea what they are doing.

Turn on QVC. Their prices are mid 1k range and people are on AUTOSHIP. For coins that are worth $200 tops.

NHsorter wrote:Barry, that sounds like something the other Barry(Obama) would say. eBay dishin out some "coin justice". I prefer free markets.

I will say though that I believe that eBay should be able to make their own rules as they see fit and users can vote with their feet. But that does not mean that I have to like all their rules. I just think they went too far on this one.

How free you want the market is a question:

- Should I be able to hire "hired goons" to go beat up my competition? Free market says "yes". I say no.

- Should I be able to lie in advertising? Free market says "yes". I say no.

- Should I be able to pass off an inferior ANACS "PR70" as equal to a PCGS PR70? Free market says "yes". I say no.

- Should I be able to sell to or buy from the uniformed, ala "hotel buyers"? Free market says "yes". I say no.

I could list a dozen more.


both directions - communism and 100% open market tend toward some severe problems when you go far enough down the path.


Remember, if you believe in the Bible that means you believe man to be FALLEN and inherently evil. Do you really want 100% freedom when you know many of the other people involved will do anything they can to win, including cheating? Free market says "yes". I say no.

yet ebay still allows all sorts of obvious shadiness clearly meant to fool the ignorant and uninformed.....

Treetop wrote:yet ebay still allows all sorts of obvious shadiness clearly meant to fool the ignorant and uninformed.....

No one says this is a complete fix, but it is a step in the right direction. Which in eBay's case might be a first since every other thing they've done has been an obvious bogus slap in the face to all ebay users.

I'm bored so here are a few more things that FREE MARKET says are ok:

- Ponzi schemes. Free market says that's fine. I say "no".

- Heavy handed monopolistic practices, such as telling your supplier that they cannot supply to the new up-and-coming company if they want to continue to supply to you. Free maket says "yes", I say "no".

- Using child labor in whatever 3rd world country to save a few cents on production. Free market says "yes", I say "no".

- Paying your entire country nearly nothing and dumping (look it up) product on the United States for less than it costs you to produce and slowly taking over the entire country without firing a shot, ala China's long term plan. Free market says "yes", I say "no".

Lot's more guys. Free market, truly free doesn't work any more than communism.

Do we need more control? NO WAY. We need a LOT less than our ignorant government has given us. But we need some control to prevent these a hundreds of other dangerous tactics.

barrytrot wrote:Do we need more control? NO WAY. We need a LOT less than our ignorant government has given us. But we need some control to prevent these a hundreds of other dangerous tactics.

Agreed. We need much less, but more effective control.

But what the free market REALLY needs to make it work is truly competitive competition.
ebay doesn't have any.
Only competition (I know of...) was UBID and ebay bought them out to eliminate competition.
There is no free market when there's only one significant producer.

This is the real underlying reason I complain about everything ebay does to control the market.

fb101 wrote:But what the free market REALLY needs to make it work is truly competitive competition.
ebay doesn't have any.
Only competition (I know of...) was UBID and ebay bought them out to eliminate competition.
There is no free market when there's only one significant producer.

This is the real underlying reason I complain about everything ebay does to control the market.

Great post!

Why oh why oh why don't Apple or Google put out their own auction site?

They could blow eBay out of the water in a few months. And do it better than they do.

Of course, there are lesser sites out there. Lesser in traffic only of course.

Great collections is a good one for coins only.

And a few others.

ANACS and ICG are reinstated as third party grading companies that meet eBay's listing criteria for grade-associated coins and coins with a fixed price over $2500

Well that is good