Can Red secede from Blue? Please?!

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I'd see the refundable tax credits as a form of dole, but not tax deductions. Enough said on that issue.

At this point, the best option for Red to secede from Blue is a pandemic or some other disaster which wipes out the major population centers. A zombie uprising would be my preference.

Other than that, I'm afraid the only option would be a general strike by the rural areas. The Blue areas are dependent on the Red areas for their basic necessities. The Red areas, for the most part, are self-sufficient.

Yeah, I am thinking along those lines as well. Before the election, I was trying to avoid the SHTF scenarios, I am not completely ready. Today I heard some Blue senator say we should just let the "Bush tax cuts" expire and go off the fiscal cliff and start over. Really??! Okay, Efff it! Let's get it on!

Me and my family will fair better than most. The major population centers will suffer the most. When the dollar collapses, the zombies will take to the streets 'cause the gov'ment can't keep them pacified any more.

"Let's see you feed yourself!" Joe Bass, from the movie "The Scalp Hunters".

[IdahoCopper]

There are a few things the reddest states can do to resist federal power. Repeal the Buck Act, or disavow it. Arrest federal agents acting in excess of their actual Constitutional authority, authorize and encourage their Sheriffs to act as the highest authority in their county, and arrest federal agents who usurp or ignore it.

All it takes are REAL state-level judges who will enforce and uphold the Constitution; and State's Rights will return.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

There are a few things the reddest states can do to resist federal power. Repeal the Buck Act, or disavow it. Arrest federal agents acting in excess of their actual Constitutional authority, authorize and encourage their Sheriffs to act as the highest authority in their county, and arrest federal agents who usurp or ignore it.

All it takes are REAL state-level judges who will enforce and uphold the Constitution; and State's Rights will return.

Bravo!

[IdahoCopper]

State governments can enact laws that make it illegal for any employer to force an employee to fill out a W-2, or file a W-4 as a condition of hiring. The actual IRS Code is constitutional, the way it is applied and enforced is not. Non-government wage earners are not subject to the income tax, if states enforce that, then the Fed.gov is greatly diminished.

Also, states need to renounce and not receive any federal subsidies or grants. They can then cut those attached strings and do what the People of that state mandate.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Here is an interesting article from WND: You will be surprised at how many petitions for secession are now in play. Texas' petition already has 20,000 signatures!

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/now-many-sta ... -from-u-s/

[Doctor Steuss]

I wonder what the impact of succession would be to the population and economies of the Red States that take more in Federal funds than they give. Would there be exoduses to Blue States? Would the economies collapse without the "free money" they are leeching from other states? Or would there be no impact at all? Also, I wonder what would happen to the heavily federally subsidized agricultural industry of rural areas within the Red States. Would agriculture essentially collapse when faced with the competition of the subsidized agriculture industry of Blue States? Also, what would happen to natural disaster prone Red States?

Just some random musings.



Regarding the slight segue into the topic of taxes, some might find this interesting/enlightening (or at the very least, kind of fun… in a slapstick sort of way): http://nationalpriorities.org/interactive-data/taxday/

[barrytrot]

I wonder if the United States could allow one of the states to leave the union but take all the US debt with it

Then that state is the sacrificial lamb

Ironically China would take over and build that state up to bigger than any other state income-wise in 10 years

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I wonder what the impact of succession would be to the population and economies of the Red States that take more in Federal funds than they give. Would there be exoduses to Blue States? Would the economies collapse without the "free money" they are leeching from other states? Or would there be no impact at all? Also, I wonder what would happen to the heavily federally subsidized agricultural industry of rural areas within the Red States. Would agriculture essentially collapse when faced with the competition of the subsidized agriculture industry of Blue States? Also, what would happen to natural disaster prone Red States?

Just some random musings.



Regarding the slight segue into the topic of taxes, some might find this interesting/enlightening (or at the very least, kind of fun… in a slapstick sort of way): http://nationalpriorities.org/interactive-data/taxday/

Many Red states have a net loss to the Federal Government. They pay in more than they get back. ( I know mine has for almost 100 yrs.) It would be interesting to see a chart on each states Federal income vs. Federal pay out.

Agriculture? Hell, large companies fly in (as in loading jet airplanes full to the gills with stuff!) flowers, fruits and veggies from all over the world today. It is a global economy. I don't know how you can do any of that! How do you get enough blue berries, or roses, into an airplane to pay for the freight??! If the Chileans, Brazilians, and Asians can do it, why can't we?

Catastrophic loss states are both red and blue. I live in a Cat Loss State. We have hundreds of insurance companies doing a brisk business. I am a little jaded on this issue. If you built your $500,000 home three feet above sea level on a barrier island and a hurricane wipes it out...You have my sympathy... If you re-build that house again on the exact same spot and get wiped out again... as far as I am concerned, you are on your own, buddy. Good luck with the insurance companies. If you re-built your home 4 feet below sea level in New Orleans... than only proves you are at the lower end of the gene pool and should not reproduce!

[Treetop]

i posted this to another forum Im on. Later I realized these states might also need to retain the part of our current debt per capita. which complicates it... but I thought it might be interesting... so below is a post I made on it...

I was thinking about this. I dont think it can happen, but lets say it did.

To keep it hypothetical, lets say 5 "red" states secede. Doesnt matter which, in general red states have good levels of farming and mining and the like. In general they have a large percentage in the armed forces. In general they are patriotic.

But the Us gov, for some reason gives them the pass. So now they are on their own, and lets say the adopt the constitution or something very similar.

MANY will want to leave these ex states ASAP. No doubt in the world. perhaps even 30-40% or more. At the same time I would expect if they wanted many many more would be willing to go to them if they had the option.

At which point youd have a nation of independent minded folks who believe their life is their own.

assuming this all played out in a similar fashion as I laid out, which again this is hypothetical Im not saying I think it could or would... Id actually expect this new country formed out of these five states to excel. they definitely couldnt build a military to rival the Us military imo, but no doubt it would be as strong or stronger then any country of comparable population.

why wouldnt they excel?? Like I said most red states have more then enough mining and minerals especially if you lump a random five together. Youd have many who want the gov to be a nanny flee, and youd have many who wan to own their own life move in. they wouldnt have the bum trade agreements we do now. their job base would likely be much more assured because of it. being a new naton formed in this modern era, they might at first have to few regs, but being a newly formed nation with inspired engaged populous they would be much more likely to have common sense regs instead.

honestly I think they would make the US look bad, again assuming it played out similar to what i said... that said it wont happen, but its interesting.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Excellent post, Treetop.

The only two ways I envision the states splitting up is an absolute collapse of our fiat monetary system (like the Soviet Union did), or a partitioning off like Pakistan did from India in 1947.

For the purposes of this thread, I propose a Pakistan/India split. We are no longer compatible, so why torture ourselves any longer? Let's get a divorce.

Your five state scenario is something like what I had envisioned. There would be mass exoduses from the politics people loathe. The hardworking independent wealth generators would flock to where they could excel, the lazy moochers would run to where they can stay on the government sugar tit.

Those who depend on the moochers votes to stay in power will fight it tooth and nail to prevent it, for they need the producers wealth to pay off the votes of the moochers.

[Engineer]

Excellent post, Treetop.

x2

I wholeheartedly agree with him about the advantages of the population shift. In the beginning, it would be very similar to a nation of newly landed immigrants who are hungry for success. A few generations later, not so much.

[shinnosuke]

Gentlemen, this is a fantasy. Or, at least it is fantasy if you think that it will be bloodless. As I have reminded you before, the US has fully implemented the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto, #4 of which is "Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels." So let's assume that the elite agreed that any state could secede. Sure the state is just a government entity so let it go, but the citizens of that state are suddenly emigrants. That 401(k)...you won't be needing that anymore, besides you didn't build that. So Uncle Sam will keep it to pay off the taxes you owe on all the benefits you received while you still held US citizenship. Your real estate...sell that and give us the proceeds. IRS Code already calls for anyone relinquishing their citizenship to pay a price. Might as well plan on being homeless if you want to secede. The heck with that you say? Well, the Department of Homeland Security has a hollow point with your name on it.

Can't happen here? Yeah, tell that to the Branch Davidians.

Therefore, moving is the best option. Out of the big cities and to more liberty-friendly locales.

[SoFa]

The secessionists are disingenuous. Nothing is stopping them from leaving the country right now.
Why do they insist that everyone else in their state has to follow them?
Are they chicken or just blowing hot air?

[fasteddy]

If Texas secedes...I'm moving

Our current influx is 1500 legal people a week in Houston. If Texas secedes..Hmmm maybe 10x that amount or greater...talk about inflation or lack of necessaties...we cant keep up with the highway system with all the people moving in...dont come to Houston.

Our gov'nor says seceding is not possible but I believe enough people get involved it will be.

[SoFa]

A couple interesting new petitions:

Deport Everyone That Signed A Petition To Withdraw Their State From The United States Of America.

Deport Everyone That Signed A Petition To Withdraw Their State From The United States Of America.

Make Duncan Trussell the Emperor Of Planet Earth

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Gentlemen, this is a fantasy.

What's wrong? Isn't Wyoming good enough for you?? What state would you rather have? Texas? Nope. The Mexicans called debs on it already.

There are scenarios where it is possible. All of which we should try to avoid.

Move out of the high population centers into the rural areas. Get ready for the stock market crash some say starts next month.