The Collapse will be Sudden

[beauanderos]

http://www.silverdoctors.com/zombification-of-america-the-collapse-will-be-sudden/#more-41210

If you enjoy watching The Walking Dead... you'll enjoy the allegory in this well-written article. A bit long, but worth the read

[bankmining]

Not a cheerful weekend read, but a good article. Thanks for posting.

[68Camaro]

Interesting metaphors between the fictional zombie culture and the society of today.

[Engineer]

Interesting metaphors between the fictional zombie culture and the society of today.

Ray hasn't quit babbling since the night we killed him...

[68Camaro]

Now that's funny!

[theo]

Overall I thought it was a good article which made several good points. I especially agree with the need for community and the caveat about choosing the right group to join. However, what bothered me a little was the writer's attitude. While I understood many of the points he made about today's society and culture, I was uncomfortable with his disdain for middle-class America as well his apparent eagerness for it to collapse. I thought his use of the zombie series was interesting. I've always felt that a big reason the zombie genre is popular is that it allows us to dehumanize our enemies, thus removing any moral resistance to killing them. The writer then compares most Americans to these very zombies perhaps in a similar effort to dehumanize the unwashed masses. This characterization might allow the author and his adherents avoid ethical recriminations when the predicted collapse does occur and they have to watch millions suffer. The problem, of course, is the they are not zombies; but thinking feeling men, women and children who will suffer on a scale not seen sInce WWII. Make no mistake, watching this meltdown and facing the hard choices, which are likely ahead, will be horrible beyond imagination.

[68Camaro]

On theo's more serious note, I have only recently actually started reading some of TEOTWAWKI fiction (a new genre which has apparently become quite popular, to my surprise) on my kindle.

Some of this is quite good - some not so much - but in each of the better sets there is a different perspective to what issues could be faced if disaster hit in modern culture, for which we would (generally) be ill-prepared. So I've been interested in and read quite a few of these over the last few weeks. (They are generally quick reads.)

In the process I've accidently run into a couple of the zombie related varients of this. As I don't watch zombie or vampire movies this would be the only way I could see this part of the culture up close, (though I see references to it everywhere). As a result I see theo's point and I suspect there is something to it. In the non-zombie books the violent struggles for life (even if just resistence to aggression of others) is a key part of the theme, and the horror of the violence , and the aftermath of guilt and self-recrimination and (effectively) PTSD is there (though often down-played). In the zombie books, the destruction of the zombies instead becomes something of a sport (though a dangerous one) at times. So in a non-zombie world, this heads in the direction of re-framing the issue of what to do about the "sheeple" by turning the aggressive ones into nominal zombies.

[beauanderos]

On theo's more serious note, I have only recently actually started reading some of TEOTWAWKI fiction (a new genre which has apparently become quite popular, to my surprise) on my kindle.

Some of this is quite good - some not so much - but in each of the better sets there is a different perspective to what issues could be faced if disaster hit in modern culture, for which we would (generally) be ill-prepared. So I've been interested in and read quite a few of these over the last few weeks. (They are generally quick reads.)

In the process I've accidently run into a couple of the zombie related varients of this. As I don't watch zombie or vampire movies this would be the only way I could see this part of the culture up close, (though I see references to it everywhere). As a result I see theo's point and I suspect there is something to it. In the non-zombie books the violent struggles for life (even if just resistence to aggression of others) is a key part of the theme, and the horror of the violence , and the aftermath of guilt and self-recrimination and (effectively) PTSD is there (though often down-played). In the zombie books, the destruction of the zombies instead becomes something of a sport (though a dangerous one) at times. So in a non-zombie world, this heads in the direction of re-framing the issue of what to do about the "sheeple" by turning the aggressive ones into nominal zombies.

Rich, I hope you'll share some of the better titles with us, as you read along. I've tried recommending to my library a number of these series, but so far they haven't gotten the hint

Those who prep... must be prepared for those who don't... either by sharing, or not caring.

I've said for years the purpose of early stacking (far beyond what you might ever need yourself) is not to create immense wealth, but to compensate for those you care about, who have chronically failed to join in our prescience. The sting is this... for all the delayed gratification built into the process, when it comes time to reap the rewards the rules could well have changed, and rather than living like a lottery winner with the envy of others, we could well become like Rome ("there's food in there" as the Vandals breached the defenses)

[68Camaro]

I hope you'll share some of the better titles with us, as you read along.

I will, but I'll probably need to read a few more before I make up my mind on how to rate them. The one I'm reading now was apparently one of the earlier of the genre (not counting the classic apocalyptic series of earlier); you can tell that it was written about 10 years ago - it is post 9/11, but pre-bubble-bust of 2008. What is especially interesting is that we are already now experiencing the inflational pricing that the author thinks should be shocking to the reader of 10 years ago, as their market crashes and prices rise within a week of the disaster which this series is set around!!! He throws out some shocking prices. Gas >$4 a gallon, bread in the mid $3s, eggs at $3+ per dozen, steak at $10.99/lb. The protaganist is shocked when gold breaks $1000/oz, and silver breaks $15. Folks, we're already there, and then some. The toad is in the pot and the water is getting very, very warm now.

[Mossy]

http://www.silverdoctors.com/zombification-of-america-the-collapse-will-be-sudden/#more-41210

If you enjoy watching The Walking Dead... you'll enjoy the allegory in this well-written article. A bit long, but worth the read

"little boxes on the hillside little boxes little boxes and they're all made out of picky-packy and they all look just the same."

The "middle class" live in picky packy slums. No difference in what a "middle class" suburb looks like from the air, and a lowest lower class slum made of trash.

[johnbrickner]

Mossy, thanks for bringing this one back. I had read it a while back but got distracted before replying to it. I'm also very pleased at the great thought put into the replys since I last looked.

Theo, your "The writer then compares most Americans to these very zombies perhaps in a similar effort to dehumanize the unwashed masses" and Rich's "So in a non-zombie world, this heads in the direction of re-framing the issue of what to do about the "sheeple" by turning the aggressive ones into nominal zombies." is good thought. The seed is being planted that the agressive, unkempt, stinking ones can be taken out as sport. Something along the lines of Gimley and Legalos in Lord of the Rings. Something to keep score over, be proud of, and how can you feel badly about slaughtering orcs?

From the article "Have we served as a virtuous example for our children, sacrificed for others, and benefited humanity or have we displayed greed, avarice and selfishness during our trek through life? As we approach our own meeting with destiny, the actions and morality of individuals will matter." I'm sure I've over commented on this but, teach your children well. It's their world we are going to leave to them, so teach them well. How they deal with the world, each other, us, and themselves after depends on it.

And this "A fruitful community that chooses decent honorable leaders, adopts a moral code, treats all members with respect, encourages hard work and accountability, and plans for the future, will reap the benefits of sustainability and stability. Cultivating a good community is difficult, requiring sacrifice, compromise, hard work, difficult choices, and depends upon the goodwill of all members." Says it all, almost. But, from what I've read most of the details are covered. We can't say exact what it will take to make a community successful or prosper after the collapse let alone survive as we have yet to experience the aftermath. This is what makes the collapse books so good. Each has a different vision for the cause, hardships, solutions and outcomes. And like books dealing with preperation, there is always something to learn or think about regardless of the author or line of thought.

Finally the author's final question to us all, "Each American who hasn’t already been infected with the zombie virus needs to prepare now and decide what kind of person they will become as the collapse engulfs our society." I'm not going to go into the good vs evil intention of the question but I can tell you if you do not have a survivor mentality geared for a long term outlook, it won't really matter if you decide to be good or evil.

On a side note, I've yet to watch a zombie show, or read a zombie book as the masses of dysfunctional zombies I see in my everyday life doesn't need to be validated or reinforced.

[theo]

http://www.silverdoctors.com/zombification-of-america-the-collapse-will-be-sudden/#more-41210

If you enjoy watching The Walking Dead... you'll enjoy the allegory in this well-written article. A bit long, but worth the read

"little boxes on the hillside little boxes little boxes and they're all made out of picky-packy and they all look just the same."

The "middle class" live in picky packy slums. No difference in what a "middle class" suburb looks like from the air, and a lowest lower class slum made of trash.

People look like ants from the air as well, but that too is a fallacy.

On a side note, I've yet to watch a zombie show, or read a zombie book as the masses of dysfunctional zombies I see in my everyday life doesn't need to be validated or reinforced.

I liked most of what you had to say, however keep in mind that a few of those "dysfunctional zombies" might actually be preppers with good operational security.

[Mossy]

The "middle class" live in picky packy slums. No difference in what a "middle class" suburb looks like from the air, and a lowest lower class slum made of trash.

People look like ants from the air as well, but that too is a fallacy.

Middle Class used to have more land around their houses. The modern housing developments are slums waiting to happen. They also look like fire would wipe out entire neighborhoods.

[beauanderos]

The "middle class" live in picky packy slums. No difference in what a "middle class" suburb looks like from the air, and a lowest lower class slum made of trash.

People look like ants from the air as well, but that too is a fallacy.

Middle Class used to have more land around their houses. The modern housing developments are slums waiting to happen. They also look like fire would wipe out entire neighborhoods.

Think Valparaiso, Chile

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/chile-fire-toll-12-dead-2000-homes-destroyed

[theo]

Middle Class used to have more land around their houses. The modern housing developments are slums waiting to happen. They also look like fire would wipe out entire neighborhoods.

As far as I know the average suburban plot is 100 X 130, which is a little over 1/4 of a acre. I believe that has been the standard for almost 50 years. Sure some builders may try to skimp and push houses closer together, however that is usually the first thing buyers notice. The homes that are cramped together (and more vulnerable to multi-structure fires IMO) are the older city neighborhoods built just before and after WWII.

Can they become slums? Of course given that right economic and environmental conditions. However these same conditions can and have turned seemingly strong farming communities into ghost towns. Its interesting how much derision suburban America takes from both the left and right. These neighborhoods packed with "sheeple" might seem to be ripe for castastrophic failure when the economy turns south again. However, given a certain amount of preparation, the right mix of people and a little luck some of these communities might prove to be the right mix of space and mutual support to survive the next crisis.

[Mossy]

Middle Class used to have more land around their houses. The modern housing developments are slums waiting to happen. They also look like fire would wipe out entire neighborhoods.

As far as I know the average suburban plot is 100 X 130, which is a little over 1/4 of a acre. I believe that has been the standard for almost 50 years.

About what I thought it was back about 50 years ago, unless the lot had it's own leach field, in which case the lot would be larger. I looked up a couple of places I used to fish in California and discovered the land nearby is now covered with housing, and the houses look about 6 feet apart, sides and backs. Google maps.

[theo]

I would not want to live in one of those developments. While I think that the vast majority of single homes are at least a 1/4 acre, I have also noticed (to your point) a significant increase in the construction of town homes and carriage homes.

Having said that, I think it might also interesting to discuss the sustainability/survivability of the suburban model when faced with various collapse scenarios.

[Mossy]

"Death traps" sort of springs to mind.

[theo]

That might be the consensus of most survival minded sites, however as with so many other cases, this prevailing wisdom (IMO) will be mistaken on several points. At some point years ago a survivalist experts concluded that the suburban development model would completely fail in the face of an economic collapse. This became accepted dogma and has been rarely, if ever, questioned. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that called Groupthink?

We might be completely convinced of a certain point of view, but every so often we must each ask ourselves: "Why could I be wrong?"

[Mossy]

That might be the consensus of most survival minded sites, however as with so many other cases, this prevailing wisdom (IMO) will be mistaken on several points. At some point years ago a survivalist experts concluded that the suburban development model would completely fail in the face of an economic collapse.

A quarter acre allows a small garden and some small livestock, so the old style suburbs were not so bad, IMO. The "jam pack" burbs, man, that's not going to make it.

[theo]

I agree. You don't want to be too cramped. As many will argue suburban neighborhoods will have to contend with serious challenges in a various collapse scenarios. However, these developments have some advantages that IMO many detractors fail to consider. Here are a few off the top of my head.

1. Most modern neighborhoods have a least a few acres of common green space (softball field, soccer field etc) which can be converted to farming/gardening. Not having 80 acres of tilled land won't as much of a liability as many might argue. In a full collapse, grid down situation all farming will be small scale anyway.

2. Many neighborhoods have access to limited fresh water sources such as small lakes/ponds, streams and swimming pools.

3. Assuming the right mix of people (BIG assumption I know) a neighborhood has formidable security advantages over a family farm. Someone with a military mind could turn 6 to 10 houses around a cul de sac or a street's end into an impressive defensive network that would require reinforced platoon to breach.

4. More than a few suburban neighborhoods are either close or adjoin actual working farms. Under the right conditions the farm and neighborhood could enter into cooperative arrangement whereby the farm provides food and the neighborhood provides manpower and security.

[Thogey]

Water will be my big problem.

We can deal with everything else, lack of (the ability to move) water will be the killer.

[tinhorn]

It may be later than you think.

[Shazbot57]

It may be later than you think.

True Dat! Here's a book that will scare the crap out of you all. "One Second After" by William Forstchen. Buckle up, it gets "real" very quickly!

[beauanderos]

It may be later than you think.

True Dat! Here's a book that will scare the crap out of you all. "One Second After" by William Forstchen. Buckle up, it gets "real" very quickly!

Good book