SCOTUS live blog Obamacare decision

[adagirl]

There is an event on November 6th which could fix all this.

Right on brother!

[knibloe]

Nobody here, or in the media is discussing the Big Picture. SCOTUS just ruled that a penalty is a constitutional tax.

Now the floodgates for an ever-increasing number of penalties is unleashed. We will be awash in innovative penalties, that will be justified by this ruling.

Obamacare is just a drop in the pond to what is coming.

Big Mac penalty
Soda pop penalty
Too much salt penalty
Tobacco penalty
French (oops "Freedom") Fries penalty
Federal seat belt penalty

the list is endless.

If only the law would stop with the things that you listed above. If this were Nazi Germany would there be a tax on those who refuse to wear the star of David? How about a law that states we all have to drive electric cars? How about they pass a law saying that we have to be implanted with a micro chip. Do we get taxed for declining? There is nothing that they cannot do now.

Also this is the first time that someone will be taxed on what they don't own rather than what they do own.

[Kurr]

Why again are we trying to spread this thing we call "DEMOCRACY" to other countries so hard? Why do so many think we NEED to be under a democracy? We were founded as a REPUBLIC.

"Why should I trade one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants 1 mile away? An elected legislature can trample a man's rights just as easily as a king can."

If the 10th amendment had any weight, this would be a States right issue to decide, and we would have choices to go to a state that supported or move to one that did not. And in all this "The People" seem to me to be powerless. What choice is there to be had? Where is the remedy or relief?

I also believe that "Insurance" coupled with "Regulatory Liscensure", which kills competition and competitive pricing, is the reason healthcare is so danged expensive to begin with.

[frugi]

Problem is, folks have and have had for a long time the "right to healthcare". ie...you can't be turned away durning an emergency.
I already pay for this right for others through my taxation. What has changed? Folks gonna have to pay a little for themselves now?
I have no problem with the ends but as most others....I don't care much for the means.

I am not sure what taxes you are paying for this "right". Just because you wont be turned away does not mean you are off the hook. My friend jumped off a cliff into some water, and shattered both of his legs, had to be airlifted to a hospital, had to have reconstructive surgery, had to learn to walk all over again. He did not have insurance. He has a $3,000,000.00 hospital bill, he will pay for it the rest of his life. How does that mean that you in any way paid for it?

[Delawhere Jack]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but:

Tax legislation can only originate in the House of Reps.

Obamacare originated in the Senate.

The court and the administration have argued that the mandate is a tax.

The whole piece of legislation is therefore illigitimate.

?

[Delawhere Jack]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Legislative_history


Senate
Senate vote by state.
Two Democratic yeas
One Democratic yea, one Republican nay
One Republican nay, one Republican not voting
Two Republican nays
House vote by congressional district.
Democratic yea
Democratic nay
Republican nay
No representative seatedThe Senate failed to take up debate on the House bill and instead took up H.R. 3590, a bill regarding housing tax breaks for service members.[157] As the United States Constitution requires all revenue-related bills to originate in the House,[158] the Senate took up this bill since it was first passed by the House as a revenue-related modification to the Internal Revenue Code. The bill was then used as the Senate's vehicle for their health care reform proposal, completely revising the content of the bill.[159] The bill as amended incorporated elements of earlier proposals that had been reported favorably by the Senate Health and Finance committees.

Passage in the Senate was temporarily blocked by a filibuster threat by Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson, who sided with the Republican minority. Nelson's support for the bill was won after it was amended to offer a higher rate of Medicaid reimbursement for Nebraska.[123] The compromise was derisively referred to as the "Cornhusker Kickback"[160] (and was later repealed by the reconciliation bill). On December 23, the Senate voted 60–39 to end debate on the bill, eliminating the possibility of a filibuster by opponents. The bill then passed by a party-line vote of 60–39 on December 24, 2009, with one senator (Jim Bunning) not voting.[161]

On January 19, 2010, Massachusetts Republican Scott Brown was elected to the Senate, having campaigned on giving the Republican minority the 41st vote needed to sustain a filibuster, even famously signing autographs as "Scott 41."[123][162][163]

HouseAlthough White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel argued for a less ambitious bill, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi pushed back, dismissing Emanuel's scaled-down approach as "Kiddie Care".[164][165] Obama's siding with comprehensive reform and the news that Anthem Blue Cross in California intended to raise premium rates for its patients by as much as 39% gave him a new line of argument for reform.[164][165] Obama unveiled a health care reform plan of his own, drawing largely from the Senate bill. On February 22 he laid out a "Senate-leaning" proposal to consolidate the bills.[166] On February 25, he held a meeting with leaders of both parties urging passage of a reform bill.[123] The summit proved successful in shifting the political narrative away from the Massachusetts loss back to health care policy.[165]

The most viable option for the proponents of comprehensive reform was for the House to abandon its own health reform bill, the Affordable Health Care for America Act, and to instead pass the Senate's bill, and then pass amendments to it with a different bill allowing the Senate to pass the amendments via the reconciliation process.[164][167]Initially, there were not enough supporters to pass the bill, thus requiring its proponents to negotiate with a group of pro-life Democrats, led by Congressman Bart Stupak. The group found the possibility of federal funding for abortion was substantive enough to cause their opposition to the bill. Instead of requesting inclusion of additional language specific to their abortion concerns in the bill, President Obama issued Executive Order 13535, reaffirming the principles in the Hyde Amendment. This concession won the support of Stupak and members of his group and assured passage of the bill.[168]

The House passed the bill with a vote of 219 to 212 on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it.[169] The following day, Republicans introduced legislation to repeal the bill.[170] Obama signed the original bill into law on March 23, 2010.[171]

Impact

[No82s]

Agree Jack. I think this whole goes back to court on that basis. I also agree that come Nov 6 things will change. It took the silent majority here in WI to wake once the whole recall BS started. Hopefully this is the wake up call for the nation's silent majority and they speak 11/6.

[Thogey]

Problem is, folks have and have had for a long time the "right to healthcare". ie...you can't be turned away durning an emergency.
I already pay for this right for others through my taxation. What has changed? Folks gonna have to pay a little for themselves now?
I have no problem with the ends but as most others....I don't care much for the means.

I am not sure what taxes you are paying for this "right". Just because you wont be turned away does not mean you are off the hook. My friend jumped off a cliff into some water, and shattered both of his legs, had to be airlifted to a hospital, had to have reconstructive surgery, had to learn to walk all over again. He did not have insurance. He has a $3,000,000.00 hospital bill, he will pay for it the rest of his life. How does that mean that you in any way paid for it?

Those million dollar medical bill crack me up. Why don't they just charge 100 million. Their ARs will look better. Who the hell is going to pay a $3million dollar bill. 3 million dollars? The 6 million dollar man got 2 bionic legs an arm and 2 eyes for 6 mil.

Sh!t Were do they come up with these numbers. Your friend had a serious injury, but 3 million? How does that cost 3 million?

[Thogey]

Back on topic.

The cruel fact is: Americans cannot handle real freedom. Because with freedom comes responsibility. Which means that each, truly free American, should be responsible for 100% of their own medical expenses. But that does not happen because we Americans have unrealistic expectations. Most Americans do not think they are responsible for their own health care costs.

I have a private, high deductible policy with an HSA. I have made every effort to be self reliant and provide for my family.

I get a gash at work that needs stitches. I pay out of my HSA account, I put money in it every week.

Recently I paid cash or a 5 stitch wound ,including a tetanus shot, with an MD sewing me up. $300 out the door.

I thought the was a pretty good price. The ER would have been $1500


We pay cash for dental care (you get a better deal and better care with cash)

But it looks like Omambo and the rest of his friends are going to make my goal of being self reliant impossible.

Please someone argue with this.

[TXBullion]

Will all private insurance have to accept pre existing? If so wont that mean higher rates across the board since risk pool has greatly increased?

Also I think doc meant we pay for it anyways in terms of bad debt being factored in as a cost of doing business , maybe I'm wrong though

[Rodebaugh]

Back on topic.

The cruel fact is: Americans cannot handle real freedom. Because with freedom comes responsibility. Which means that each, truly free American, should be responsible for 100% of their own medical expenses. But that does not happen because we Americans have unrealistic expectations. Most Americans do not think they are responsible for their own health care costs.

I have a private, high deductible policy with an HSA. I have made every effort to be self reliant and provide for my family.

I get a gash at work that needs stitches. I pay out of my HSA account, I put money in it every week.

Recently I paid cash or a 5 stitch wound ,including a tetanus shot, with an MD sewing me up. $300 out the door.

I thought the was a pretty good price. The ER would have been $1500


We pay cash for dental care (you get a better deal and better care with cash)

But it looks like Omambo and the rest of his friends are going to make my goal of being self reliant impossible.

Please someone argue with this.

True on all accounts

[Rodebaugh]

Will all private insurance have to accept pre existing? If so wont that mean higher rates across the board since risk pool has greatly increased?

Also I think doc meant we pay for it anyways in terms of bad debt being factored in as a cost of doing business , maybe I'm wrong though

Yes, that is what I meant.

[Engineer]

This is definitely a slippery slope.

We all need dental care at some point too, and regular dental care is proven to improve overall health...so how long until everyone is forced to buy dental insurance? Will we eventually have to prove we went in for cleanings to avoid being fined by the IRS?

[IdahoCopper]

I've been sailboat shopping ... seen a couple nice ones in the 45-50 foot range ... in the neighborhood of $40k-$50k. Would be kinda nice to assemble the RealCent "Treasure Fleet" in San Diego, for sailing points south and west.

Don't volunteer to give your treasure to the IRS, put your preps in your boat and just sail away.

[knibloe]

Will all private insurance have to accept pre existing? If so wont that mean higher rates across the board since risk pool has greatly increased?

you are correct on this and this is not an unintended consequence. It was planned. Once the private insc cannot pass along the cost they will go bankrupt and we will advance to the single payer (fed gov) system.

[shinnosuke]

Hail to the Chief, Broccoli Hussein Obama!