Do You Know Someone Who is voting for Hillary?

[Treetop]

And when I asked him what he thought of all the email and Clinton Foundation stuff, he said it's all just speculation. I said we'll have to agree to disagree.

I encounter many who think this. It blows my mind. It was 100% verified she had classified materials on her server, which is totally illegal. From wikileaks we found "friends of WJC" which refers to people who donated or paid for speeches did indeed get a meeting with the state dept. Which by itself is pay for play. It is worth noting in this case and all the materials before this, nothing wikileaks has thus far posted has proven to be fake later. Might happen in the future but it hasnt yet. They have a better track record then any media source I know of by far in this regard. On top of this she destroyed subpoenaed materials, people just do not usually get away with any of this.

As for Trumps court case with the 13 year old girl. It is looking more and more like a potential scam. A guy related to this case was also involved in a bunch of other tabloid news stories. Which doesnt prove it false by itself but it is a major red flag to be sure. It is also worth noting that NYT investigated Trumps treatment of women for months, interviewed dozens of women and the worst the came up with was Trump while single publicly telling a women she looked great in a bikini then they dated for a bit. Somehow they didnt find any of these other women who claim he did things, and they just happened to be dropped into the national debate at key times and as wikileaks which the clintons knew was coming started showing us just how corrupt they were.

[IdahoCopper]

Deprograming a Clintonite:

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1527344653 ... -supporter

[bankmining]

Deprograming a Clintonite:

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1527344653 ... -supporter

Good, sane reasoning in those thoughts.

[scyther]

I've always disregarded the rape thing, because the media rarely talks about it. They took every opportunity to accuse him of sexual assault based on the recording and the other accusations, which were far less severe than actual rape. If they thought there was a credible rape accusation he could be convicted of, they'd never shut up about it. But apparently it doesn't even meet their bare-minimum standards.

[knibloe]

Deprograming a Clintonite:

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1527344653 ... -supporter

I liked this a lot. Too bad I live in a state that will go for Hillary no matter what.

[Verbane]

I have one coworker who told me she is, paraphrased, "voting for Hillary because her vagina makes her historic".

[johnbrickner]

Over the week-end I came across one each. A Trumper and a Clintonite. Seems people are more willing to talk about their views as the deadline gets closer. The reasons they are voting how they are were shared without prompting on my part. Listening closely, I found they were parroting the same reasons you hear on the media. It was all about the bad things associated with the other. They also brought up the bad with their chosen candidate so as not to cause resentment on my part if I were favorable in the opposite direction to their views. Polite but adamant. To bad. They've drunk the cool-aid of R vs D and have bought in this is how the system works for them. They are unaware.

A people divided cannot form the critical mass required to bring about meaningful change.

Four more years. The stock and PM markets have already decided the outcome. We'll see. Some day the sheep will look up, but I don't hold my breath it will happen in my lifetime.

Patient, long-term, strategic planning required.

[Treetop]

They've drunk the cool-aid of R vs D and have bought in this is how the system works for them. They are unaware.

You know this was always my thinking as well. Not convinced the two party system and mindset is the issue anymore however. Watching the libertarians choose a guy who isnt libertarian at all who picked a VP that wants almost all guns outlawed and loves the patriot act and wars floored me. Of course that said atleast among those I personally know (not speaking for everyone) the libertarians are going trump or sitting it out and dis affected dems and reps are going johnson or stein. On top of this with johnson in his own words he sides with sanders 73% of the time, Ive seen appologists makes excuses for this and say they agree on issues but not how to fix them, this is clearly false though when you look at the fact he based this from the isidewith questions which arent framed like that at all. He also lies like any other politician and pretends he balanced new mexicos budget when he came closer to tripling our debt in his 8 years then doubling it. He also ran his 2012 campaign in the red.

Seeing all this I dont think the 2 party system by itself is the core issue here at all. Imo people as a collective just dont understand the issues, nor care to hold leaders accountable, nor even expect quality picks. Even many who think they understand the issues imo, just parrot their preferred version of someone they think is an expert perhaps with a few twists.

I saw the other day, congress has a 6% approval but 94% re election rate. I might remember the numbers a bit off but it was close to that even if I got it off a bit. Like what the heck is that nonsense?

Imo, a big part of this is also the size of government. We need most decisions done locally, which would still face many of the same issues but it is easier to correct imo. Would also have other issues for itself, but I expect still much easier to keep in check then nationally.

All that said I wasnt trying to call out johnson folks specifically. I just dont agree hes the best pick when hillary wants to draw battle lines with russia over some crap nation that I dont think can affect my life and would over time have the 2nd amendment re envisioned on the supreme court as well as immigration policy that further ensures the nations rushes to the left politically with no forseeable chance to reverse it. If they get amnesty we cant send them home later. I actually like many Trump plans as well and would love to see a political outsider who admits to buying the system so he knows how it works attempt to do some of those things. lol Drain the swamp donald!! I happen to consider Trump the first "barely good" candidate of a major party since Ive been around rather then just a vote against the other side. One major aspect to thinking that is people might not be ready for local politics yet, but atleast trump wants to keep the power here nationally instead of further concentrating it internationally. "Americanism over globalism will be our credo"

[misteroman]

My mom is voting for hilLIARy because trump is a bad person. We tried to talk to her and tell her to think of our son (7yrs old) but she's set.
If I wasn't trying to be be a better Christian I 100000000% would never talk to her again. When my parents split when I was 19 because she cheated I didn't talk to her for 15 yrs but after our son was born in wanted to try and be better. It is still going to be hard if God for fid HC wins. Guess it's a test for me which I probably won't do well with-!!!!

[Rodebaugh]

Over the week-end I came across one each. A Trumper and a Clintonite. Seems people are more willing to talk about their views as the deadline gets closer. The reasons they are voting how they are were shared without prompting on my part. Listening closely, I found they were parroting the same reasons you hear on the media. It was all about the bad things associated with the other. They also brought up the bad with their chosen candidate so as not to cause resentment on my part if I were favorable in the opposite direction to their views. Polite but adamant. To bad. They've drunk the cool-aid of R vs D and have bought in this is how the system works for them. They are unaware.

A people divided cannot form the critical mass required to bring about meaningful change.

Four more years. The stock and PM markets have already decided the outcome. We'll see. Some day the sheep will look up, but I don't hold my breath it will happen in my lifetime.

Patient, long-term, strategic planning required.

That's the problem. We are a nation of "I'm voting for (insert name) because I cant stomach the other guy/gal"

I started a poll topic thread on BS and asked participants to state what party they are registered under. The only qualifier be that it is stated why you are something instead of why you are not something. So saying, "I cant stand the dems and der baby killing pollassys" is not acceptable. Where as, " I registered republican because I hold the same values as them in terms of pro-life" Seem simple doesn't it? yeah you'd think so.....we were not off the first page until someone muffed up and told the world why they weren't something. Polity reminding the fella to tell us why he was something rather than why he was not something resulted in him being upset and supposedly leaving that forum.....what a shame.

Our populous is a nation that knows not what it wants rather only what it's told not to want. God help us.

[68Camaro]

I don't view voting based on (I don't like...) as a problem. It is a perfectly acceptable method of decision making that is employed by almost everyone on a daily basis and is especially appropriate to this election.

The inability of the person at BS to follow your directions is another matter. If he didn't like your rules he shouldn't have played.

[68Camaro]

Over the week-end I came across one each. A Trumper and a Clintonite. Seems people are more willing to talk about their views as the deadline gets closer. The reasons they are voting how they are were shared without prompting on my part. Listening closely, I found they were parroting the same reasons you hear on the media. It was all about the bad things associated with the other. They also brought up the bad with their chosen candidate so as not to cause resentment on my part if I were favorable in the opposite direction to their views. Polite but adamant. To bad. They've drunk the cool-aid of R vs D and have bought in this is how the system works for them. They are unaware.

A people divided cannot form the critical mass required to bring about meaningful change.

Four more years. The stock and PM markets have already decided the outcome. We'll see. Some day the sheep will look up, but I don't hold my breath it will happen in my lifetime.

Patient, long-term, strategic planning required.

I think many are missing the overall big picture, and surprisingly it's a democratic pollster (though a fairly respected one from the old school) that has "gotten it" and written about it here.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/11/ ... eople.html

[theo]

Excellent article by Cadell! He has always made sense to me, but here he is really on to something. It seems to me that the commoners and elites have struggled throughout history, with the elites usually maintaining the advantage. But every few generations the commoners revolt and upset the order of things and, as Cadell points out, the elites rarely see it coming. It reminds me of a toned down version of The Fourth Turning.

The problem is, I'm not sure it will happen tomorrow. I don't think the masses have reached a critical point quite yet and I'm not sure Trump is the man to lead them. I truly hope Trump wins tomorrow, but my sense (or fear) is it will take at least one HRC administration for a 1980-style revolt to truly materialize. But what do I know? I thought Romney was a lock in 2012.

[johnbrickner]

Thank you for posting the link Rich. If his polling numbers are correct, I have been seriously underestimating the awareness of the General American Public (GAP). With numbers around 2/3's of the GAP agreeing with my primary concerns, I could strike up the conversations virtually anywhere instead of waiting for a proper lead in to show itself.

After reading, I feel much better about the election. No, not that . . . I still think both are not worthy of my vote. But, that if Trump wins it will be because the people were finally pissed off enough to make it happen. I'm still going to be surprised if TPTB allow this to happen. And having Trump is not what is making me feel better. It's that if Trump is not elected, more Americans are going to get pissed off with the status quo to the point of making significant change happen. And they may not wait for the next Presidential election to express their differences with the system.

[Treetop]

I truly hope Trump wins tomorrow, but my sense (or fear) is it will take at least one HRC administration for a 1980-style revolt to truly materialize. But what do I know? I thought Romney was a lock in 2012.

Will almost certainly be to late by then. The immigration issue I keep talking about is poised to turn Texas among many others blue, until the republicans do. Florida is another. Several other important ones key to republicans already harder track in the electoral college.

[aloneibreak]

I truly hope Trump wins tomorrow, but my sense (or fear) is it will take at least one HRC administration for a 1980-style revolt to truly materialize. But what do I know? I thought Romney was a lock in 2012.

Will almost certainly be to late by then. The immigration issue I keep talking about is poised to turn Texas among many others blue, until the republicans do. Florida is another. Several other important ones key to republicans already harder track in the electoral college.

agreed

we dont have 4 more years

the tree of liberty will be watered by then

[jailbirdjackson]

I live in Chicago. As expected, everyone I know in chicago is voting for Clinton, with two exceptions. First, one of my co-workers is a closeted Trump supporter/volunteer. He and his girlfriend are probably voting Trump. Second, I know a handful of members of the local American Legion post and I'm sure they aren't voting for Clinton. The reason in every case is, they are afraid of Trump and they want to prevent him from winning.

[Treetop]

Apparently ISIS calling for attacks on voters? Doesnt seem likely they will pull it off much or at all. thought Id mentioned it though, be safe if you see anything weird out there today.

[knibloe]

My mom is voting for hilLIARy because trump is a bad person. We tried to talk to her and tell her to think of our son (7yrs old) but she's set.
If I wasn't trying to be be a better Christian I 100000000% would never talk to her again. When my parents split when I was 19 because she cheated I didn't talk to her for 15 yrs but after our son was born in wanted to try and be better. It is still going to be hard if God for fid HC wins. Guess it's a test for me which I probably won't do well with-!!!!

my step mom is voting hillary. She is generally a republican, but has drunk all of the lies and scare tactics of the democrats.

[68Camaro]

Excellent article by Cadell! He has always made sense to me, but here he is really on to something. It seems to me that the commoners and elites have struggled throughout history, with the elites usually maintaining the advantage. But every few generations the commoners revolt and upset the order of things and, as Cadell points out, the elites rarely see it coming. It reminds me of a toned down version of The Fourth Turning.

The problem is, I'm not sure it will happen tomorrow. I don't think the masses have reached a critical point quite yet and I'm not sure Trump is the man to lead them. I truly hope Trump wins tomorrow, but my sense (or fear) is it will take at least one HRC administration for a 1980-style revolt to truly materialize. But what do I know? I thought Romney was a lock in 2012.

Tucker Carlson commenting this morning put it this way. The democratic party used to be the party of the middle class down to the poor. The republican party used to be the party of the middle class up to the elite rich. The democratic party has transformed itself into the party of the elites and the poor while walking away from the middle class. The republican party had also focused on the elites without much attention to the poor - also walking away from the middle class. Donald Trump has transformed the republican party and tried to recover representation for the middle class of both former parties while blowing off the elites, leaving the previous establishment furious. Even if he doesn't win he has given a new movement energy.

[natsb88]

It boggles my mind that anybody can look at Donald Trump and his campaign and think "representing the middle class," other than naked pandering. I know that's where his support is coming from, but it's totally irrational. Like watching a herd of cattle cheering for the butcher because he gave a speech about the steers deserving greener grass.

Likewise the "peaceful" left falling in line behind Hillary.

[Treetop]

LOL, Its obvious actually. Either all he says is a lie, or his primary focus is the middle class which is the backbone of the economy. Even just the immigration issue. Illegal immigrants drive down wages to name just one random thing. People have been convinced protectionist trade policy is bad, but those with such policy fare immensely better consistently. Without our role internationally no nation could have sustained our level of trade deficits, without inflating ourselves in half a dozen plus ways our middle class would already be a fraction of the size it was when most here were children. Without these various inflations wed be shrinking, yet the third world is growing. Specifically the part that uses protectionism so their industry and then people retain actual wealth. Many "experts" tell us otherwise but we will meet the third world close to the middle. All the countries since ww2 that have a middle class used such mindsets despite how many frame it. Many of those use what amount to inflations through banking to maintain it now but this is not sustainable. It is interesting how "experts" routinely portray these things from just the right angle to pretend otherwise. I wish I had bothered to make a case for this as I had said I would. As you pour over the datapoints from dozens of nations the truth becomes glaring and obvious. One such "inflation" I speak of is the way, that as we exported our middle class jobs of past eras we created more government job. That for the most part are unsustainable, atleast at the current level and trade deficit. We used increased fractional reserve banking during this period among other things that also cannot be sustained but massively buffered our middle class. Even the industry we have retained is in large part supported by all these various factors boosting our economy that cannot be sustained long term. Meanwhile the part of the third world that is soaking up these jobs we shed and more importantly building real wealth are all protectionists. Other parts of the third world without such policy are better off having jobs at all then not, but their quality of life is a tiny fraction of what their protectionist competition has. Especially when you compare nations starting from similar places economically and similar population sizes. The same types of experts telling us the mindset I portrayed is wrong are the same to tell you living on the backs of your children and the myriad of ways we have boosted our economy with short term mindsets are positives and can last. Hey I know!! to balance our trade deficits lets have actual free trade instead of our crony "freetrade" designed help wealthy first world industry exploit the worlds poorest skilled workers!!! We totally wont meet the third world in the middle!! Forcing us to accept much lower quality of life to compete or loose out entirely. Shhh ignore that our current middle class is supported in a dozen non sustainable ways or otherwise would already be a fraction of its current size even with only partial freetrade with a small portion of the worlds exploitable. LOL it amazes me so many buy into this, especially those who see past many or most of the ways we boost ourselves in non sustainable ways. Ehhh no one cares what I say though, Im not an "expert" selling something.

We have continued reports of votes switching from trump to hillary, this time out of PA. Just a coincidence it always goes int he same direction no doubt. My TV told me there is no such thing as voter fraud based on "studies" done by soros backed groups.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/11/ ... -to-polls/

[Tourney64]

My sister in law and her daughters all voted for Obama twice. All 3 of them voted for Gary Johnson. Don't see how Killary wins, as she doesn't have the same support Obama did and voter turnout is at record levels. Trump will put good people around him unlike the corrupt cronies Obama and Killary have done.

[Doctor Steuss]

We have continued reports of votes switching from trump to hillary, this time out of PA.

This seems to happen every year. I'm surprised it isn't even more prevalent. Last election, someone even recorded the machine continuously switching their vote from Obama to Romney.

All the more reason to pay attention to what you’re doing, and let a poll worker know immediately if there’s a problem with the machine. In America, there’s probably a good chance that someone with donut jelly hands used the machine before you did.

[Treetop]

We have continued reports of votes switching from trump to hillary, this time out of PA.

This seems to happen every year. I'm surprised it isn't even more prevalent. Last election, someone even recorded the machine continuously switching their vote from Obama to Romney.

All the more reason to pay attention to what you’re doing, and let a poll worker know immediately if there’s a problem with the machine. In America, there’s probably a good chance that someone with donut jelly hands used the machine before you did.

nO idea if anyone has in recorded from Pa but that is exactly what they claim. This time always from the right to left though. Out of texas in early voting though a few did record it happening.