SCOTUS live blog Obamacare decision

[frugi]

http://news.yahoo.com/the-supreme-court ... sblog.html

it looks like the nation was lied to, and this is going to be a tax, even though we were told over and over again it will NOT BE A TAX. Obama realized it would not pass, so he did a 180. In other words: He Lied.

a link to the decision/opinions by the justices..
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11 ... 93c3a2.pdf

[frugi]

Amy Howe: In Plain English: The Affordable Care Act, including its individual mandate that virtually all Americans buy health insurance, is constitutional. There were not five votes to uphold it on the ground that Congress could use its power to regulate commerce between the states to require everyone to buy health insurance. However, five Justices agreed that the penalty that someone must pay if he refuses to buy insurance is a kind of tax that Congress can impose using its taxing power. That is all that matters. Because the mandate survives, the Court did not need to decide what other parts of the statute were constitutional, except for a provision that required states to comply with new eligibility requirements for Medicaid or risk losing their funding. On that question, the Court held that the provision is constitutional as long as states would only lose new funds if they didn't comply with the new requirements, rather than all of their funding.

[frugi]

the reading of the mandate is super long, and every interpretation is very fluid at the moment....across the board.

[frugi]

in the words of the Democrats: "Its Constitutional Bitches"

http://washingtonexaminer.com/dnc-execu ... le/2500854

tweet from: Patrick Gaspard, exec director of the Democratic National Committee.

[AGCoinHunter]

Pathetic, SC pissed all over the constitution by saying its a tax. Fuk them.

[NHsorter]

It's official, the Supreme Court no longer gives a S about the original intent of the Constitution. Kiss your freedom and liberty good bye. As if property taxes did not do a good enough job enslaving us all for life, now we can forever pay for everyone else's healthcare too.

[frugi]

so if i choose to not have health insurance (which I currently do not have health insurance)

in 2014...I will be fined 1% of my income or a flat fee of $95.00 whichever is greater
in 2015...I will be fined 2% of my income or a flat fee of $325.00 whichever is greater
in 2016...I will be fined 2.5% of my income or a flat fee of $695.00 whichever is greater

this is all BS!!! my problem is I dont want health insurance, because I dont see conventional doctors, i dont need insurance because every bit of healthcare I seek is NEVER covered by health insurance since it is non conventional. In addition, I am technically unemployed. I dont make much money if any profit or income at all. I lost my manufacturing job, I dont get assistance of any kind, no food stamps, no unemployment, no medicare, no medicaid, no disability, not a dam thing. How am I supposed to afford $695.00/ year, and increasing annually? WTF??? just to continue being an American..WTF?? I am speechless.

[68Camaro]

Consider it a tax on breathing...

[Morsecode]

this is all BS!!! my problem is I dont want health insurance, because I dont see conventional doctors, i dont need insurance because every bit of healthcare I seek is NEVER covered by health insurance since it is non conventional. In addition, I am technically unemployed. I dont make much money if any profit or income at all. I lost my manufacturing job, I dont get assistance of any kind, no food stamps, no unemployment, no medicare, no medicaid, no disability, not a dam thing. How am I supposed to afford $695.00/ year, and increasing annually? WTF??? just to continue being an American..WTF?? I am speechless.

I'm in the same boat. This is the last year I'll have any income 1099 reportable. After that, so long tax returns. Can't fine me if'n I don't file

[shinnosuke]

Consider it a tax on breathing...

+1

Now MIttens is not my first choice for President, but if his comments of a few minutes ago are taken at face value - that he will repeal Obummer Care - then he has strengthened his chances for victory.

[barrytrot]

so if i choose to not have health insurance (which I currently do not have health insurance)

in 2014...I will be fined 1% of my income or a flat fee of $95.00 whichever is greater
in 2015...I will be fined 2% of my income or a flat fee of $325.00 whichever is greater
in 2016...I will be fined 2.5% of my income or a flat fee of $695.00 whichever is greater

this is all BS!!! my problem is I dont want health insurance, because I dont see conventional doctors, i dont need insurance because every bit of healthcare I seek is NEVER covered by health insurance since it is non conventional. In addition, I am technically unemployed. I dont make much money if any profit or income at all. I lost my manufacturing job, I dont get assistance of any kind, no food stamps, no unemployment, no medicare, no medicaid, no disability, not a dam thing. How am I supposed to afford $695.00/ year, and increasing annually? WTF??? just to continue being an American..WTF?? I am speechless.

If we are both still active on this forum in 2014 I'll send you $95 if your income is less than $9500 per year. I'm serious. However, I would recommend you find income of at least $10,000 per year, which I'm certain you can do if you choose to do so.

I've stayed completely out of this healthcare thing because I knew there was a 100% chance it would happen.

[IdahoCopper]

Nobody here, or in the media is discussing the Big Picture. SCOTUS just ruled that a penalty is a constitutional tax.

Now the floodgates for an ever-increasing number of penalties is unleashed. We will be awash in innovative penalties, that will be justified by this ruling.

Obamacare is just a drop in the pond to what is coming.

Big Mac penalty
Soda pop penalty
Too much salt penalty
Tobacco penalty
French (oops "Freedom") Fries penalty
Federal seat belt penalty

the list is endless.

[frugi]

If we are both still active on this forum in 2014

I will still be active on this forum in 2014. That is of course unless we are in a civil war, I am off the grid, or dead. However, I dont take charity. Thank you for your offer though. I will not pay. Even if I was a billionare.

[Rodebaugh]

Problem is, folks have and have had for a long time the "right to healthcare". ie...you can't be turned away durning an emergency.
I already pay for this right for others through my taxation. What has changed? Folks gonna have to pay a little for themselves now?
I have no problem with the ends but as most others....I don't care much for the means.

[barrytrot]

If we are both still active on this forum in 2014

I will still be active on this forum in 2014. That is of course unless we are in a civil war, I am off the grid, or dead. However, I dont take charity. Thank you for your offer though. I will not pay. Even if I was a billionare.

I can completely understand a principle of "not being the beneficiary of charity". I feel the same way.

However, giving you money for a specific thing is NOT charity.

So don't be confused on that.

You are, of course, not obliged to take the money. Although I will keep the offer open.

[NDFarmer]

There is an event on November 6th which could fix all this.

[IdahoCopper]

There is an event on November 6th which could fix all this.

LOL!
Only if you believe the vote counting machines are not rigged.
OF COURSE THEY ARE RIGGED.

QUOTE OF THE DAY:
Joseph Stalin
'It's Not the People Who Vote that Count;
It's the People Who Count the Votes'

[68Camaro]

Problem is, folks have and have had for a long time the "right to healthcare". ie...you can't be turned away durning an emergency.
I already pay for this right for others through my taxation. What has changed? Folks gonna have to pay a little for themselves now?
I have no problem with the ends but as most others....I don't care much for the means.

What has changed? This would be the first tax that only required that you be breathing for it to be imposed on you. All others require that you a) own land, b) buy something, c) sell something, d) earn something from another, e) etc.

[scrapper2010]

Not sure but, isn't the fine for not having coverage not actually enforceable, especially for low income people.

[shinnosuke]

Not sure but, isn't the fine for not having coverage not actually enforceable, especially for low income people.

Do you make (too much) money? Then get ready to get taxed twice. Once for your own healthcare and twice for someone who doesn't make much. Obama said that there will be tax credits for those who can't afford health care coverage. As Doc said, this form of socialism already existed to some degree, now there are teeth in a law to make you pay. And believe me, you will pay.

[AGCoinHunter]

Interesting, the more I read about the decision it appears that Roberts pushed this toward being a tax which takes away the commerce clause as a way to be enforceable. As a tax it can be voted on and repealed in the house without threat of fillabuster and does not require 60 votes in the senate. I just cant think that Roberts is a fan of Obama after the SC was ridiculed during the state of the union address. Just makes me wonder if Roberts is closing the loops for any further legislation that may use the all encompasing commerce clause as enforcement. Basically he has punted this back into the political arena. Disappointing yes, but the victory laps by obama may be premature. This is going to be the lightening rod for november. Healthcare is not a constitutional right.

[scrapper2010]

Not sure but, isn't the fine for not having coverage not actually enforceable, especially for low income people.

Do you make (too much) money? Then get ready to get taxed twice. Once for your own healthcare and twice for someone who doesn't make much. Obama said that there will be tax credits for those who can't afford health care coverage. As Doc said, this form of socialism already existed to some degree, now there are teeth in a law to make you pay. And believe me, you will pay.

Yep no doubt, I agree, I was just responding to the above post about having to pay a fine if unemployed with little to no income.

[scrapper2010]

..... Just makes me wonder if Roberts is closing the loops for any further legislation that may use the all encompasing commerce clause as enforcement. Basically he has punted this back into the political arena. Disappointing yes, but the victory laps by obama may be premature. This is going to be the lightening rod for november. Healthcare is not a constitutional right.

This could doom Obama in November. Maybe this was Robert's plan?

[glass]

so if I choose not to comply, They can seize my property

[Delawhere Jack]

This is very dissapointing, but in the end it is moot. Our nation is already bankrupt. We cannot possibly repay the debt we already owe, and it is growing by 10% per year. We have $80-100+ Trillion dollars in unfunded mandates due over the next twenty years. Our feral gubbernmint is borrowing 40% of what it spends, and revenues are rapidly declining. The congress has not passed a federal budget in over three years.

We have a former us senate rat and nj gubbner who stole $1.6 billion funds from clients, three months ago, and no charges have been files. Where is he? Meanwhile they take some ex jock and hold a show trial because he may have lied about juicing so that he could provide better entertainment with a stick and a ball for the sheeple in the arena.

We have the a.g. of the ussa (and the head of dhs, and very likely the totus and sec of state as well) who was intimately involved in allowing NARCO TERRORISTS to aquire military style weapons, resulting in the murder of at least 200 mexicans and a us border agent, and the media ignores it and/or twists their coverage to downplay the issue.

Eastern, asian and south american nations are quietly agreeing to use chinese currency for trade rather then feral reserve toilet paper.

The entire western world is in for a major shakeup, and this PIECE OF [shucks] law will only expedite the day of reckoning.

I could go on and on, but what's the point.

Keep stacking.