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Please VOTE today, unless you are a DEM, than just stay home! hehe.

I voted at 7:00 am this morning, I was the fifth person to vote at my polling place.

I dont know if it is voting day everywhere in the country, but surely it is more places than just Missouri,
if it is voting day in your state, please vote today.

You have the right to vote, make sure you use that right while it is still available, if you dont, you may one day lose the right to choose to or choose not to vote.

Don't forget all of the sacrifices made by those that came before us.

Don't forget those who built this nation from the ground up through blood, sweat, and tears.

Don't forget those who died so that Americans can have the right to vote.

if voting made a difference, it would be illegal.

voting only suggests that you consent to be governed. i don't buy into the false R/D dichotomy; they are two sides to the same coin.

if you live in a state of the union, have a drivers license, pay any tax of any kind(including sales tax), have a library card, have any utility.......than it would seem to me that you are consenting to being governed. You are being goverened by the governemnt and if not by a government than at the very least a private company. We need government, we just dont need a government that feels it is necessary to regulate and make decisions on behalf of the individual while declaring it is in the individuals best interest because the individual does not know how to care for him or herself. We need a government to maintain roads and infrastructure, we need a government to guard the people against a foreign invasion, we the government to guard our borders, we need a government for civil defense of the people against felonies such as rape, murder, fraud. That is the government we need.

vote by mail by me...

Lemon Thrower wrote:if voting made a difference, it would be illegal.

voting only suggests that you consent to be governed. i don't buy into the false R/D dichotomy; they are two sides to the same coin.

Unfortunately, I agree. It is also an excuse to dodge jury duty.

frugi wrote:if you live in a state of the union, have a drivers license, pay any tax of any kind(including sales tax), have a library card, have any utility.......than it would seem to me that you are consenting to being governed. You are being goverened by the governemnt and if not by a government than at the very least a private company. We need government, we just dont need a government that feels it is necessary to regulate and make decisions on behalf of the individual while declaring it is in the individuals best interest because the individual does not know how to care for him or herself. We need a government to maintain roads and infrastructure, we need a government to guard the people against a foreign invasion, we the government to guard our borders, we need a government for civil defense of the people against felonies such as rape, murder, fraud. That is the government we need.

It's all about exposure, the more I put into their game, the more likely they are to annoy me on some level. Treat government like an infectious communicable disease with no cure.

Lemon Thrower wrote:if voting made a difference, it would be illegal.

voting only suggests that you consent to be governed. i don't buy into the false R/D dichotomy; they are two sides to the same coin.

it would be illegal or cost a large amount of money.

frugi wrote:if you live in a state of the union, have a drivers license, pay any tax of any kind(including sales tax), have a library card, have any utility.......than it would seem to me that you are consenting to being governed. You are being goverened by the governemnt and if not by a government than at the very least a private company. We need government, we just dont need a government that feels it is necessary to regulate and make decisions on behalf of the individual while declaring it is in the individuals best interest because the individual does not know how to care for him or herself. We need a government to maintain roads and infrastructure, we need a government to guard the people against a foreign invasion, we the government to guard our borders, we need a government for civil defense of the people against felonies such as rape, murder, fraud. That is the government we need.

+100%

Politics currently sucks in America, but, if you are not involved in correcting the problems... you are the problem!

If you don't vote, if you don't fight the good fight... ya got no right to bitch.

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Politics currently sucks in America, but, if you are not involved in correcting the problems... you are the problem!

If you don't vote, if you don't fight the good fight... ya got no right to bitch.

Every time someone utters these now famous lines I laugh

I vote but only because I collect stickers

barrytrot wrote:

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Politics currently sucks in America, but, if you are not involved in correcting the problems... you are the problem!

If you don't vote, if you don't fight the good fight... ya got no right to bitch.

Every time someone utters these now famous lines I laugh

I vote but only because I collect stickers

Why do you laugh? It's true. The first time I heard these lines it was by John Denver in 1972 out pumping up the youth vote for the Demo party. Who the hell do you think runs this country today?!

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Why do you laugh? It's true. The first time I heard these lines it was by John Denver in 1972 out pumping up the youth vote for the Demo party. Who the hell do you think runs this country today?!

Let's try this:

Prove that it is true.


That is something that would make me and MANY others stop laughing.

barrytrot wrote:

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Why do you laugh? It's true. The first time I heard these lines it was by John Denver in 1972 out pumping up the youth vote for the Demo party. Who the hell do you think runs this country today?!

Let's try this:

Prove that it is true.


That is something that would make me and MANY others stop laughing.

Why do I need to prove anything to you? I am not responsible for your cynicism, so don't lay it on me.

It is as plain as the nose on your face. The people fighting the system in the late 60's and early 70's now run this country. The people who were fighting to get into the '68 Democratic convention now run the Democratic party.

Who is Bill Ayers? He was the leader of the Weathermen Underground. His crimes were domestic terrorism. He bombed buildings. He didn't go to jail solely on a technicality. Not too long ago he helped launch the political career of Barak Obama. I can't remember how many times Ayers has visited Obama in the Oval Office, but it was over ten times in Obama's first year alone. That is what I am talking about.

barrytrot wrote:
I vote but only because I collect stickers

Me too!
I love free stickers

use this to make you laugh.
I am throwing away my vote this november.
I will be voting for Ron Paul.
I know that he doesn't have a chance.
I believe that it will be a close race, and that the R's should have my vote.
I am sorry to say, That we are past the tipping point in my view.
Romney [my choice out of 2 possibles] would only be able to delay the inevitable.
The longer you delay paying your tab, the harder it gets to cover.

In nearly every election, there are things I want to vote against. That's the only reason I consistently vote.

Politicians I want to vote for are few and far between, so I throw my vote away on third party candidates...and occasionally somebody like Jesse Ventura manages to sneak into office.

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Why do I need to prove anything to you? I am not responsible for your cynicism, so don't lay it on me.

It is as plain as the nose on your face. The people fighting the system in the late 60's and early 70's now run this country. The people who were fighting to get into the '68 Democratic convention now run the Democratic party.

Who is Bill Ayers? He was the leader of the Weathermen Underground. His crimes were domestic terrorism. He bombed buildings. He didn't go to jail solely on a technicality. Not too long ago he helped launch the political career of Barak Obama. I can't remember how many times Ayers has visited Obama in the Oval Office, but it was over ten times in Obama's first year alone. That is what I am talking about.

Ok, you are switching up a bit here.

Activism -> Has value

Those activists now have power as you say.

Certainly I know that certain groups I am involved in have power due to their strong voice.


I was speaking specifically about "voting". Which I thought was obvious.

Creating a group/cause/etc. and fighting for it. Sure I believe in that.

What I do not believe in is voting, though I generally do it for no other reason than the free sticker and my personal anecdotal proof that it has no value.

justoneguy wrote:use this to make you laugh.
I am throwing away my vote this november.
I will be voting for Ron Paul.
I know that he doesn't have a chance.
I believe that it will be a close race, and that the R's should have my vote.
I am sorry to say, That we are past the tipping point in my view.
Romney [my choice out of 2 possibles] would only be able to delay the inevitable.
The longer you delay paying your tab, the harder it gets to cover.

Nothing in this was remotely funny

True sounding though.

justoneguy wrote:I am throwing away my vote this november.
I will be voting for Ron Paul.
I know that he doesn't have a chance.
I believe that it will be a close race, and that the R's should have my vote.
I am sorry to say, That we are past the tipping point in my view.
Romney [my choice out of 2 possibles] would only be able to delay the inevitable.
The longer you delay paying your tab, the harder it gets to cover.

This is exactly how I stand on this year's presidential election. Here in Texas, Obama has little chance of winning our electoral college votes so I am not concerned about him taking the state just because several thousand patriots and I write in Dr. Paul.

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:

barrytrot wrote:

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Politics currently sucks in America, but, if you are not involved in correcting the problems... you are the problem!

If you don't vote, if you don't fight the good fight... ya got no right to bitch.

Every time someone utters these now famous lines I laugh

I vote but only because I collect stickers

Why do you laugh? It's true. The first time I heard these lines it was by John Denver in 1972 out pumping up the youth vote for the Demo party. Who the hell do you think runs this country today?!

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri= ... bYkXEZorpg

caution: language

justoneguy wrote:Romney [my choice out of 2 possibles] would only be able to delay the inevitable.

Gives me an idea.

Why delay the inevitable? Why not vote for Obama and make the collapse happen sooner?

I can't believe I just wrote that.

barrytrot wrote:

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Why do I need to prove anything to you? I am not responsible for your cynicism, so don't lay it on me.

It is as plain as the nose on your face. The people fighting the system in the late 60's and early 70's now run this country. The people who were fighting to get into the '68 Democratic convention now run the Democratic party.

Who is Bill Ayers? He was the leader of the Weathermen Underground. His crimes were domestic terrorism. He bombed buildings. He didn't go to jail solely on a technicality. Not too long ago he helped launch the political career of Barak Obama. I can't remember how many times Ayers has visited Obama in the Oval Office, but it was over ten times in Obama's first year alone. That is what I am talking about.

Ok, you are switching up a bit here.

Activism -> Has value

Those activists now have power as you say.

Certainly I know that certain groups I am involved in have power due to their strong voice.


I was speaking specifically about "voting". Which I thought was obvious.

Creating a group/cause/etc. and fighting for it. Sure I believe in that.

What I do not believe in is voting, though I generally do it for no other reason than the free sticker and my personal anecdotal proof that it has no value.

Barry, I really don't have time to play your little debate games. It is you who are switching up things as you say it so you can alter the conversation to your advantage. I knew you would do that before I even responded. The power of the vote is what put people into office like Obama. The power of activism is what swayed that vote. Therein lies the power of people like Ayers who have been fighting ever since the 60's to change our government.

All of you must be willing to fight just as hard as they did if you want to change things back.

This is the most important election of our lifetimes. Obama trashes the Constitution everyday and if reelected will be far worse than ever before. I can't believe you guys are saying things like you are. The gist of your comments, for me, is "well we can't stop this, so let's hasten the fall." You can't possibly grasp the magnitude of how serious this is if you are going to vote stupid. Maybe you do and you are all a bunch of damn fools. You can't sit on the sidelines this time. You have to help stop Obama.

And another thing, Barry, don't tell me we need to be "polite, civil, not say names, etc." like you usually do. I don't have time for that either.

Sheik - We are past the tipping point.
More voters get a government handout or check than those who do not.
All people vote for their perceived self-interest.
Thus, all elections will now accelerate the out-flow of money from the government to the voters who get those benefits.

It cannot be stopped at the ballot box. America is as-you-know-it is already doomed.

So the choices are plain and simple:
1. Leave forever, just like the smart Germans did in the early 30s.
2. Forget the ballot box, open the bullet box.

The choice is yours. There is no third choice, unless you want to passively hang around to see what happens to hoarders like you.

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Barry, I really don't have time to play your little debate games. It is you who are switching up things as you say it so you can alter the conversation to your advantage. I knew you would do that before I even responded. The power of the vote is what put people into office like Obama. The power of activism is what swayed that vote. Therein lies the power of people like Ayers who have been fighting ever since the 60's to change our government.

All of you must be willing to fight just as hard as they did if you want to change things back.

This is the most important election of our lifetimes. Obama trashes the Constitution everyday and if reelected will be far worse than ever before. I can't believe you guys are saying things like you are. The gist of your comments, for me, is "well we can't stop this, so let's hasten the fall." You can't possibly grasp the magnitude of how serious this is if you are going to vote stupid. Maybe you do and you are all a bunch of damn fools. You can't sit on the sidelines this time. You have to help stop Obama.

And another thing, Barry, don't tell me we need to be "polite, civil, not say names, etc." like you usually do. I don't have time for that either.

I think there was just a miscommunication if you think I changed stances. My stance was and is (on this micro-issue) -> voting has as much value as the paper it is no longer written on.

The "power of the vote" -> Good one.

But lets say I do believe the votes are actually accurately counted -> Unless you live in a "swing state" your votes have zero value. So if you live in 10 states, your vote has a tiny chance of counting.

Georgia, where I live is going to vote Romney. Period. No doubt there at all. So whomever I vote for it's a waste of a few seconds.

Sure I can vote on the other things on the ballot, everything from "Senator" down to "school board". And "school board" might actually matter, I suppose as those votes are pretty close generally, and I'm sure they go down to "1 vote" every now and then.


So I will grant you -> voting "locally" probably matters, at least some of the time. And, if you are concerned and the one time you don't vote is the time it would have mattered, WOW, that would be a bit of a burden.

Voting in the (possibly) legal election for the President -> no value though.

So I guess I cede the majority of the point.


For some reason even though I admitted defeat I still have this strong feeling that voting is no longer relevant and probably no longer legitimate.

Still, I lose, you win. Congrats. And I'm being serious here.

for me I have an undying respect and love for America. this is a fact that has been passed down to me through the generations of my family history.....I have 2 family members that were signers of the Decleration of Independance.....Francis Lightfoot Lee, and Richard Henry Lee. I was raised knowing the sacrifices our "forfathers" made for our independence, and the rights that we have, and the truths and freedoms to which our nation was founded upon. These truths, freedoms, and God given rights have fallen by the wayside. Some of us, will never forget, and will always be patriots whether it is in the voting both or elsewhere.

I think i have as much love for America as you do; i just don't delude myself into thinking it still exists.

fwiw, here are Doug Casey's thoughts on not voting. I'm not some sort of Casey disciple or something, but Doug usually manages to hit an idea from angles you haven't previously thought of.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/casey/casey62.1.html