This Presidential debate is a Disaster!

[Thogey]

I'm listening to it on the radio. Not TV.

We are screwed!. They are the same guy arguing details.

Why vote? They are not debating principle. It's an accounting debate.

We're f-ed. It's over. I might just vote for Obama or vote with my eyes closed. I want to throw up!

[Thogey]

Romney sounds like a shill.

I'm so disgusted!.....

it's over!

[NHsorter]

They do sound too similar. But I don't think it's over. I'll hire people if Romney wins. If Obama wins, we''ll be lucky to keep all the people have now. That's not cause I'm a dink, it's because that is what I realistically will be able to do.

[Thogey]

There was no debate on constitutional principle.

My son is on the hook for all the medicare knee replacements?

Apparently, furture generations (my son) are responsible for providing elder care for the next 30 years.

I want to spit on the next 70 year old driving a new corvette, sporting 2 brand new knees. He has no idea what those knees cost.

Go ahead and pump those slot machines while sucking on taxpayer paid for O2 with your medicare paid for lung transplant. Light up another Marlboro and pound another glass of Bombay gin...We'll pay for it.

It's our responsobility? WTF!

[Neckro]

Same pile of [shucks] in a different suit.

[Thogey]

They do sound too similar. But I don't think it's over. I'll hire people if Romney wins. If Obama wins, we''ll be lucky to keep all the people have now. That's not cause I'm a dink, it's because that is what I realistically will be able to do.

Honest question. Why do you say this?

I let 3 guys go this spring. They've been with me for 7 years and I can't imagine hiring again. It doesn't matter who is president. Our system, our culture is on an irreversible decline, IMHO.

[OneBiteAtATime]

Maybe it sounded different than it looked.... but that's not what I saw.

I heard "The programs we cut will be anything that we decide we don't want to Borrow from China to pay for." That we cannot have the government "choosing winners and losers." I heard some Conservativism.

I saw confidence, I saw real concern about the country.

On the other side of the stage I heard - "Its not my fault that the economy is bad. What we've done is working, you're just too stupid to see it." I saw a man who was wishing he wasn't there. I saw a man who was biting his tounge. A man who wished he could say what he really believes, but knowing if he did.....

I didn't see what you guys saw (or heard.)

[Thogey]

Same pile of [shucks] in a different suit.

Same suit!

ObamaRomneyDebate4_20121003_222538.jpg (24.51 KiB) Viewed 900 times

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

They do sound too similar. But I don't think it's over. I'll hire people if Romney wins. If Obama wins, we''ll be lucky to keep all the people have now. That's not cause I'm a dink, it's because that is what I realistically will be able to do.

Honest question. Why do you say this?

I let 3 guys go this spring. They've been with me for 7 years and I can't imagine hiring again. It doesn't matter who is president. Our system, our culture is on an irreversible decline, IMHO.

I feel my business is screwed if Obama wins again. Call it a lack of confidence on what is going to happen after we fall off the "fiscal cliff".

If Romney wins? I still have little confidence in the future, but my gut says it will not be as bad under Romney as Obama.

[NHsorter]

They do sound too similar. But I don't think it's over. I'll hire people if Romney wins. If Obama wins, we''ll be lucky to keep all the people have now. That's not cause I'm a dink, it's because that is what I realistically will be able to do.

Honest question. Why do you say this?

I let 3 guys go this spring. They've been with me for 7 years and I can't imagine hiring again. It doesn't matter who is president. Our system, our culture is on an irreversible decline, IMHO.

I feel my business is screwed if Obama wins again. Call it a lack of confidence on what is going to happen after we fall off the "fiscal cliff".

If Romney wins? I still have little confidence in the future, but my gut says it will not be as bad under Romney as Obama.

Yup.

Maybe I'll write more tomorrow but I got to sleep!

[theo]

Maybe it sounded different than it looked.... but that's not what I saw.

I heard "The programs we cut will be anything that we decide we don't want to Borrow from China to pay for." That we cannot have the government "choosing winners and losers." I heard some Conservativism.

I saw confidence, I saw real concern about the country.

On the other side of the stage I heard - "Its not my fault that the economy is bad. What we've done is working, you're just too stupid to see it." I saw a man who was wishing he wasn't there. I saw a man who was biting his tounge. A man who wished he could say what he really believes, but knowing if he did.....

I didn't see what you guys saw (or heard.)

I agree. I thought Romney's attacks on Obamacare were pretty effective. He clearly pointed out how government-run healthcare will become increasingly expensive for patients and taxpayers alike. I also liked his explanation on how competition, not government control, will lower prices. Romney is not my first choice, but if Obama's healthcare and energy policies are allowed to stand we will be under the complete control of the government. I know many of you will argue that this is already the case, but after being in Vietnam for a month, I can tell you that there are a lot of freedoms that we can still lose.

[NHsorter]

They do sound too similar. But I don't think it's over. I'll hire people if Romney wins. If Obama wins, we''ll be lucky to keep all the people have now. That's not cause I'm a dink, it's because that is what I realistically will be able to do.

Honest question. Why do you say this?

I let 3 guys go this spring. They've been with me for 7 years and I can't imagine hiring again. It doesn't matter who is president. Our system, our culture is on an irreversible decline, IMHO.

The problem is that there is WAY too much uncertainty under Obama. Who knows what the hell he will try to pull, especially in a 2nd term! I am not going to stick my neck out to get stomped on by this clown. He has displayed total disregard for entrepreneurs at all levels. He has no clue how it all works. I don't think that I am alone in this feeling. It is a widespread feeling between peers that I speak with every day, at all levels of business. At best, we are stalled until this guy is gone.

Romney gets business. He is not going to do things to strangle business. I think that even if Obama really did intend to help small business (he does not) that he would not even be able to cause he would screw it up. He really does not get it.

I get it Thogey, the debt ship has sailed. Romney is big government too (not quite as big though, trust me) We are all screwed. No one is talking about the constitution, limited government, states powers, etc. It's a shame. Maybe 99% of the people have their head in the sand. Or maybe us 1% are just nuts. Either way, if Romney wins, the UNCERTAINTY and the pressure starts to lift off of those with the means to invest. And that is the key to pulling up out of this big ass ditch.

[NHsorter]

Also, I don't think we are in IRREVERSIBLE decline yet. But get back to me in a month A 2nd term is going to mean much more Govt dependence, and millions of illegals turned into voters. These are the groups that are proven to be the best at multiplying too. So a 2nd term may make it irreversible. If you get a solid majority on the take, that probably seals the deal.

[NHsorter]

Sorry to keep blabbing... Don't give up Thogey! There is money to be made, even in decline. It's harder to do, but it certainly can be done.

[barrytrot]

To what level are "we all screwed"?

- Less money/spending power?
or
- Panhandling or stealing for bread like Jean Valjean?

[NHsorter]

To what level are "we all screwed"?

- Less money/spending power? = MITT
or
- Panhandling or stealing for bread like Jean Valjean? = BHO

[reddirtcoins]

Maybe it sounded different than it looked.... but that's not what I saw.

I heard "The programs we cut will be anything that we decide we don't want to Borrow from China to pay for." That we cannot have the government "choosing winners and losers." I heard some Conservativism.

I saw confidence, I saw real concern about the country.

On the other side of the stage I heard - "Its not my fault that the economy is bad. What we've done is working, you're just too stupid to see it." I saw a man who was wishing he wasn't there. I saw a man who was biting his tounge. A man who wished he could say what he really believes, but knowing if he did.....

I didn't see what you guys saw (or heard.)

That is what I saw.

[brian0918]

While Obama has put the pedal to the metal, accelerating us toward the cliff, Romney would at least be a small pebble in the path, buying us a little time. That's the most we can hope for, unfortunately.

[natsb88]

I didn't watch the debate (I was still at work), but from the comments and reviews I have read elsewhere, it sounds like all I missed was a scripted infomercial. I'll have to look for a condensed version to watch later.

It's true that Romney knows business. But he knows business on an investor group, multi-thousand employee, outsource-to-China type scale. When it comes to a sole proprietor or a <10 man operation, I doubt Romney would be much better than Obama. Employment incentives, tax breaks, and regulatory exemptions generally go to companies big enough to hire hundreds or thousands of workers so politicians can point and say "look at all the jobs I created." Small businesses have to work the hardest to make ends meet, are affected most by the costs of compliance, reporting, and taxes, and are largely ignored by politicians and the media. Romney also seems to have very little practical knowledge of manufacturing, and at least some of his Bain successes were based on moving manufacturing from the US to China. Driving production overseas and tipping the scales even more to the consumer side rather than the producer side is just going to increase economic pain in the long run.

[NHsorter]

For President of the United States, I want a guy that knows how to run big operations and Macro type stuff. That's what the job is. So I don't care if he is disconnected with how 10 man operations work. 10 man operations will still have a better playing field under Romney. Take a poll of all the "10-man" entrepreneurs you can find, the results would be a landslide. And for good reason. These guys want to get the UNCERTAINTY out of the White House.

1099's for everything? VAT? More Regulations? More entry barriers? More agencies to report to? More rules to follow? And that is the tip of the iceberg. Which guy am I talking about here? I think it is clear. Romney is not gonna pull any of this crap. Obummer just might if we let him.

[Kurr]

I, name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."

THAT's what I want the president to do. Nothing more. I don't care if he knows business. I dont care if knows social structure. I don't care about much of anything else except the last part of that oath. IF he can do THAT, I feel I won't have to worry about all the rest as much. Congress oversteps it's bounds? Defend the constitution. Thats's it. That's what the vetoes are for, defend, preserve and protect the constitution, not ensure a personel agenda of HIS vision, whoever HE might be!

Are we not all aware that the FEDERAL RESERVE is the largest holder of debt surpasing Japan and China? Does the president have control over them? Is it not the Federal Reserve that devalues our money and decreases our standard of living no matter who is in Presidential Office or Congress?

Have we forgotten that every dollar in existance is a part of the debt that enslaves us, with more being created and piled on everyday no matter the policies that are proposed?

Take the focus off the puppets and look for the puppet masters. Once they take that oath, and get took to the back behind the cameras and public eye and given "The Talk" all bets are off anyway.

Politics make me mad!@!

[natsb88]

For President of the United States, I want a guy that knows how to run big operations and Macro type stuff. That's what the job is. So I don't care if he is disconnected with how 10 man operations work. 10 man operations will still have a better playing field under Romney. Take a poll of all the "10-man" entrepreneurs you can find, the results would be a landslide. And for good reason. These guys want to get the UNCERTAINTY out of the White House.

1099's for everything? VAT? More Regulations? More entry barriers? More agencies to report to? More rules to follow? And that is the tip of the iceberg. Which guy am I talking about here? I think it is clear. Romney is not gonna pull any of this crap. Obummer just might if we let him.

Agreed that Romney would be "less bad" for businesses (I hardly think he will be "good" for businesses though, unless the business is already large scale or in bed with the government). There is still plenty of uncertainty with Romney IMO. Romney keeps saying he is going to replace Obamacare. With what? Something small businesses can afford/sustain/expand under? Kinda doubt it. I fear he'll look at what fortune 500 companies can implement and regulate that across the board. He's just as out-of-touch with real middle-class small business, and the cost of living for the middle class, as Obama is.

Not to mention that Romney believing the federal government has an obligation to mess with healthcare shows he doesn't understand (or just doesn't care about) the constitutional role of the federal government. And he supported TARP and the bank bailouts, while simultaneously preaching that free markets should decide winners and losers instead of the government .

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Obama supporter. But the "fiscal conservative" and "pro-business" makeup Romney and Ryan are wearing isn't fooling me. Underneath, they're just another pair of big-government clowns.

[Country]

Vote Libertarian! That is what I'm going to do.

[brian0918]

Vote Libertarian! That is what I'm going to do.

And if Johnson had a chance, or was at least featured in the debates, then I would still consider him a possibility. But he's not a possibility. While he would be the better candidate on most issues, no amount of "protest" voting "on principle" will change the tide. As bad as Romney is, Obama is clearly head-and-shoulders above him worse.

Vote for the least bad likely candidate now, in order to buy time, and then use that time to work to change people's minds on the local scale.

Voting for the "lesser of two evils" is not what got us to this point. Society does not want a good candidate - they don't even know what one would look like. The increasing dependence on government, and sense of entitlement, continually brings about two evil choices. Picking the less evil one buys time, and gives good a chance to flourish.

[NHsorter]

Vote Libertarian! That is what I'm going to do.

And if Johnson had a chance, or was at least featured in the debates, then I would still consider him a possibility. But he's not a possibility. While he would be the better candidate on most issues, no amount of "protest" voting "on principle" will change the tide. As bad as Romney is, Obama is clearly head-and-shoulders above him worse.

Vote for the least bad likely candidate now, in order to buy time, and then use that time to work to change people's minds on the local scale.

Voting for the "lesser of two evils" is not what got us to this point. Society does not want a good candidate - they don't even know what one would look like. The increasing dependence on government, and sense of entitlement, continually brings about two evil choices. Picking the less evil one buys time, and gives good a chance to flourish.

+1

Yes, they both suck. I agree with most of what Kurr and Nate say as well. But I don't think Romney is a 100% big business puppet. I really do think that he is a good guy with good intentions and I think that he would work to try to help all who wish to help themselves. Or at least not pile on more BS.

Yes, they both suck. Yes, you can point out so many similarities. But there are huge differences as well. Part of the reason they sound so similar right now is because the are both going after the same white middle class ignorant undecideds. Trust me, there is HUGE differences in the product that you will get over the next 4 years. Clearly we can all wish for something better than our -->2 CHIOCES<-- right now. But tough crap. This time, this is what you get. You got 4 years to get off your ass and try to fix it for the next show.

I know political rants typically don't make friends so sorry for blabbing so much on here. I respect all of your opinions. I just felt the need to stress the potential ramifications to my business/career/etc.