Realcent.org

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:47 pm**

Usually the news topics of the day get some conversations going here on RC, but I have not heard much of any discussion concerning Ebola. What are you guy thinking/doing?

Here is what I am doing: Bitching! I can be seen ranting and raving with my arms waving, bitching about why we don't just stop flights from dirty, useless, west africa.

Also I am making a few bucks. Without even trying to be opportunistic. I had been re-selling N95 masks for a while now. Get a good deal from one of my vendors at work and have been flipping these masks for a few extra bucks on the side. Suddenly, prices have now gone crazy. I have been doing everything I can to try to get as many of these in stock but supply is tight. Been pretty busy keeping up with demand. While the extra money is nice, I would much rather this damn Ebola just go away.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:59 pm**

It is a shiny object.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:05 pm**

http://philosophyofmetrics.com/2014/09/ ... shore-oil/

oil

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:13 pm**

Thogey wrote:It is a shiny object.

agreed

but still a danger nonetheless

wait until it gets into central america

maybe then we'll shut the south border down...

:roll:

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:21 pm**

to be honest it isnt so much the ebola that scares me, as the fear of the tighter control/travel restrictions/martial law that is coming...

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:22 pm**

Since the latest victim was on a flight from Cleveland just a day before being diagnosed, I can't wait for it to spread around here...

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:29 pm**

We had Ellis Island for a reason! What are we going to do stop all flights into this country? Have a state restrict access to or thru it from neighborhood states that are infected? Going to get worse....

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:55 pm**

I just found out the victim was visiting family in Akron, where I'm located, for four days! :sick:

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:20 pm**

I'm having a hard time with this. There is too much hype, misinformation, yellow journalism, and flat lies.

The information on the net runs counter the older books. I have been a nurse for over twenty five years. Yes, some of my reference books are old.

Africa is a different world. I expect the disease to be different in the USA, Canada and Europe. This disease is in the category of dengue fever, malaria, and yellow fever. These have been around a long time, but you don't see many here.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:31 pm**

From what I've seen, the virus doesn't do well in dry air. With that being the case, winter may slow its spread in the US. If it reaches epidemic levels, hunkering down in the desert might be an idea to consider.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:09 pm**

Thinking no one here (USA) is paying attention. More worried about newest cell phone and reality TV. IMO I think we are early in this coming potential epedemic. Here in U.S. we are more mobile and socialized. The ability to transmit this virus is much greater here.
Think back to Y2K, we prepared by storing food and toiletries for a little while.
Should it manifest and spread, I don't rule out martial law. Restricted travel, isolation, health care will be difficult or impossible to access. (Can't leave home to see doctor for regular ailments, no offices open or Dr willing to see patients anyway. (If u were rich would u chance it).

IMO: While it hasn't reached panic stage here, prudence is the best choice. Prepare now (if u aren't already ) as though we know a long hard winter is possible. Check your supplies, restock them now.
As the awareness sets in things will change rapidly. We are a just in time economy now, goods are manufactured and shipped on demand. Travel restrictions will create distribution issues both cross country and locally.
No one has a crystal ball to predict what's ahead. Plan, prepare, educate.
Better a month early than a day late.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:05 pm**

Ebola spreads through direct contact with infected bodily fluids. It doesn't spread through the air and it's not super likely to spread through indirect touch unless you immediately run up and lick a doorknob just used by an infected patient bleeding from his hand. It also isn't contagious until symptoms start showing, and isn't prominently contagious until the later stages.

This is a problem in West Africa where there is little knowledge of how it spreads, where there is little water treatment and waste treatment, where people live in close contact, and where infected wild game is eaten regularly.

The second and third cases in the US were both healthcare workers who were treating the first case, in direct and prolonged contact with the patient's bodily fluids.

This is media sensationalism. The common flu poses a bigger threat every year in this country than Ebola ever will. There's usually some new strain the media can sensationalize...bird flu, swine flu, H1N1, West Nile... This year they latched onto Ebola.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:08 pm**

natsb88 wrote:Ebola spreads through direct contact with infected bodily fluids. It doesn't spread through the air and it's not likely to spread through touch unless you immediately run up and lick a doorknob just used by an infected patient bleeding from his hand. It also isn't contagious until symptoms start showing, and isn't prominently contagious until the later stages.

This is a problem in West Africa where there is little knowledge of how it spreads, where there is little water treatment and waste treatment, where people live in close contact, and where infected wild game is eaten regularly.

The second and third cases in the US were both healthcare workers who were treating the first case, in direct and prolonged contact with the patient's bodily fluids.

This is media sensationalism. The common flu poses a bigger threat every year in this country than Ebola ever will. There's usually some new strain the media can sensationalize...bird flu, swine flu, H1N1, West Nile... This year they latched onto Ebola.

so when the shi t hits the fan get out of the way!

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:56 pm**

natsb88 wrote:Ebola spreads through direct contact with infected bodily fluids. It doesn't spread through the air and it's not super likely to spread through indirect touch unless you immediately run up and lick a doorknob just used by an infected patient bleeding from his hand. It also isn't contagious until symptoms start showing, and isn't prominently contagious until the later stages.

This is a problem in West Africa where there is little knowledge of how it spreads, where there is little water treatment and waste treatment, where people live in close contact, and where infected wild game is eaten regularly.

The second and third cases in the US were both healthcare workers who were treating the first case, in direct and prolonged contact with the patient's bodily fluids.

This is media sensationalism. The common flu poses a bigger threat every year in this country than Ebola ever will. There's usually some new strain the media can sensationalize...bird flu, swine flu, H1N1, West Nile... This year they latched onto Ebola.

always nice to hear a voice of reason. Agree with the sensationalism. However, if it exceeds the possibility of containment in West Africa (which they've already admitted is out of control) it WILL eventually spread, and with more patients (at some point in the future) than health care workers and facilities to treat them... the outcome won't be pretty. We may be a few years from that, but what is being underestimated is the utter implacability of this foe. Better to prep and display prudent cautionary measures than to wish later that you had.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:23 pm**

natsb88 wrote: "Ebola spreads through direct contact with infected bodily fluids. It doesn't spread through the air and it's not super likely to spread through indirect touch..."

While that has been stated...there are people that disagree. Type in "CDC is lying" on any search engine and read all sorts of people who think different. Also, another point is how one might define "direct contact"

The below is from an article on: http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/10/politics/ ... ebola-cnn/
Rand Paul to CNN: 'I don't want to create panic' over Ebola

The CDC defines close contact as being within three feet of a patient for a prolonged period of time, or having direct brief contact, such as shaking hands and hugging. Walking by a person or moving through a hospital does not comprise contact, the CDC says.

However, on CNN, CDC Director Dr. Thomas Frieden said that if a person had been coughed on or sneezed on by an Ebola patient, medical professionals would want to "look at that situation very closely."

"They also say it can't be aerosolized," Paul said Friday. "But the question people should be asking is, 'Can it be transmitted by someone coughing on you?' I think the virus can be suspended in cough particles. They call that direct contact. But I think most Americans would think that's being aerosolized."

So, while I know this is a serious discussion, I can't help but want to inject a little humor via a video that was done in 2001: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHa-AvLk4no What are the odds of this video being created that say this is not an airborne virus... Amazing isn't it.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:28 pm**

Yep,it's so super frickin hard to get that dozens of educated, highly trained, well out-fitted and isolation-controlled healthy medical professionals in the prime of their lives have DIED just this year. Thank God it isn't more contagious - we would be in serious hurt if it was.

Yep, the flu can be super dangerous. I can be persuaded to be scared of it also, in its most virulent form, which can be 100-200 times more fatal than the "common" annual type. People forget that it killed 3-5% of the world's entire population during 1918-20; 50-100 million people with an estimated 10-20% mortality rate - and that was when the world's population was only fractionally mobile compared to today.

I'm always amazed when people laugh this stuff off.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:42 pm**

It is only transmitted by bodily fluids? Is someone trying to suggest it like an STD?
How would you like to have just found out you were sitting next to the latest victim on her airline flight?

You all may not want to know this but we all are exposed to other's bodily fluids every day.

YOU ingest stranger's crap, snot and semen. You expose yourself whenever you touch anything at walmart, every time you open a door, and every time you use a salt shaker in a restaurant. Do you ALWAYS wash you hands before you eat or touch your face?

When will the virus become mosquito borne? Remember we can't use DDT.

I'm glad this is a big story. It's always the stuff you don't see coming that kicks your ass.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:54 pm**

With all the talk of Ebola, nobody is talking about politics...three weeks before a national election.

I doubt that's an accident.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:39 pm**

cough, cough... ACHOO!

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:46 pm**

Engineer wrote:With all the talk of Ebola, nobody is talking about politics...three weeks before a national election.

You noticed that too huh. How about gas prices falling below $3 in a lot of areas. Locally the multi-county drug task force just did their every-two-years-right-before-elections roundup with like 70 arrests and a big front page article in the paper. 'Tis the season.

68Camaro wrote:Yep,it's so super frickin hard to get that dozens of educated, highly trained, well out-fitted and isolation-controlled healthy medical professionals in the prime of their lives have DIED just this year.

Yep, with the common denominator that they were overseas working in the midst of the outbreak, or were treating patients who had been abroad and contracted it. I'm not arguing that Ebola isn't dangerous, but I'm quite confident that the threat to everyday American Joe Sixpack is being greatly exaggerated and sensationalized. For the average citizen, as long as you don't vacation in West Africa, your chances of contracting Ebola at this point are negligible.

Healthcare workers may be a different story, but that holds true for anything contagious, and it comes with the territory. Not that I don't sympathize with those who may be exposed through their employment, but a lineman accepts a higher risk of electrocution than a librarian and a fisherman accepts a greater risk of drowning than an accountant. Healthcare workers accept a higher risk of infection than the average public, and part of their responsibility is recognizing symptoms and submitting to the procedural isolation if they get them. Patient #3 knowingly getting on an airplane with a fever after treating an Ebola patient, if that is indeed how it happened, is a prime example of what NOT to do, even though the risk of spreading it is still small, and perhaps there should be professional consequences for that action.

Thogey wrote:How would you like to have just found out you were sitting next to the latest victim on her airline flight?

Surely I wouldn't like it. But what is your alternative? Mandatory blood testing for every passenger at the airport before they get on a plane? Airplanes are petri dishes on a good day. By voluntarily boarding a commercial flight, you are accepting that you will be in close contact with numerous other humans for an extended period of time, which entails certain risks. If somebody sneezes on your face and gets you sick, you could always sue them. But if we don't want big government controlling every detail of our lives, we need to accept personal risk management and responsibility. If you don't want the risk of contracting Ebola on a plane, don't get on a plane.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:26 pm**

Thogey wrote: . . . YOU ingest stranger's crap, snot and semen. You expose yourself whenever you touch anything at walmart, every time you open a door, and every time you use a salt shaker in a restaurant. Do you ALWAYS wash you hands before you eat or touch your face? . . .

Having worked with athletes before, during and after they compete I've been deep into the mud, blood and beer (think U Mass Amherst rugby club) with them always and often. Many are the times I have to push my hand up under their jerseys and shoulder pads to palpate a collar bone, rib or other body part dripping with sweat or lie my cheek down in the mud so I can get up close and see their eyes thru the face mask as they are face down and not moving. So close, you can feel them breath on your face. Needless to say, I wash my hands up to the elbows constantly. Especially before I go to the bathroom.

Luckily, most are to young to have caught the really nasty stuff we've seen passed around and in good health, so my exposure is mostly to the colds and flu typically passed around young people in public schools. Only one known MRSA case in 8 years and that from an athlete falling on the gym floor causing no open wound.

During my undergrad study, I did have a college athlete come into my hotel room on an away competition, drop his pants and shorts in front of me, pick a crab (scabies) off his pubic hair, drop it into an ash tray and say "Brick, what's this?". I kick him and his little friend out of my room faster than you can say it.

Ebola? Yes, I've been watching it closely since early reports and watching it spread. Reminds me of the many times I've played pandemic 3 http://pandemic3.com/ Good thing I'm not in a position to make the decisions as I'd have already stopped direct transportation from all of West Africa and quarantined the borders from anyone having spent time there over the last two or three months (these at the very least and just for starts). More as things get worse. I don't trust a virus not to mutate any more than I trust our government to give us straight information as to what is happening. And, that's the way it goes.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:27 pm**

natsb88 wrote:[
Thogey wrote:How would you like to have just found out you were sitting next to the latest victim on her airline flight?

Surely I wouldn't like it. But what is your alternative? Mandatory blood testing for every passenger at the airport before they get on a plane? Airplanes are petri dishes on a good day. By voluntarily boarding a commercial flight, you are accepting that you will be in close contact with numerous other humans for an extended period of time, which entails certain risks. If somebody sneezes on your face and gets you sick, you could always sue them. But if we don't want big government controlling every detail of our lives, we need to accept personal risk management and responsibility. If you don't want the risk of contracting Ebola on a plane, don't get on a plane.

What? Big government controlling every detail. Apparently, they ignored the most obvious course of action.

I assumed it would have been necessary to isolate all involved in caring for the African. Not allow the a caretaker to jump on an airplane.

Apparently some common sense was ignored.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:51 pm**

This is a photo of the 2nd infected nurse being boarded on the plane heading to Atlanta.
Any one spot the 2 idiots.

Why wear protective clothing if everyone is not?

Any questions now if the government even has the basic clues on how to handle this?

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:48 pm**

ScrapMetal wrote:

This is a photo of the 2nd infected nurse being boarded on the plane heading to Atlanta.
Any one spot the 2 idiots.

Why wear protective clothing if everyone is not?

Any questions now if the government even has the basic clues on how to handle this?

I see the same individual in both photos, so one "idiot," and he's not touching anything. The two in suits are those directly touching the patient, who is also in a suit. So double protection for them. Seems pretty safe to me.

I don't know...this kinda comes across to me the same way all the warnings about asbestos and lead do. Yes, they can be very harmful. But it only takes a few common sense measures to handle them safely. The government throws scary warning labels on everything containing even trace amounts of lead, but we all handle ammo without gloves and don't get lead poisoning. And you have to be trained and certified to go around removing asbestos from old homes or pay huge fines if caught, but if you watch the certified guys actually remove the stuff, they often just mist it with water to prevent dust and stuff it in a garbage bag, suits open and masks off, if they are even wearing them to begin with, and you get a lot of the "I have been doing this for 40 years without any problems" types.

There is risk all around us. You can't eliminate it. You can use statistics and common sense to manage it. Insurance companies are good at evaluating risk, it's how they make a profit. The government is not very good at evaluating risk, it's how we have tens of thousands of overburdening regulations that kill economies and new healthcare laws that are going to cause rates to skyrocket in a few years when all these new can't-evaluate-pre-existing-conditions customers settle in. I wouldn't put my trust in the government to accurately assess or manage the risk of Ebola. I do fully expect them to be overly cautious (which often leads to overly burdensome) with the procedures they put in place, and I do fully expect the media to blow it way out of proportion, which we are already seeing.

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:37 am**

Having worked as an RN for sixteen years in a setting where bloodborne precautions are sometimes necessary (dialysis/HepB) I can tell you
that the CDC attributing the infection of the nurse to a breach in protocol is almost certainly correct. However, I have no doubt that the PPE
offered was insufficient to the task, the staff was not correctly trained, and that there was poor oversight during the disrobing when it was
suggested inadvertent contact occured. Having read the guidelines, it would require DAYS of training to begin to feel comfortable and
competent in donning and disrobing the tyvek body suits... so that every step is perfectly adhered to and nothing overlooked.

I'd be willing to bet that few, even in the CDC, have undergone the rigorous field training required. It's a far different animal to read about something
as compared to actually doing it. Finally, you are under constant pressure to perform with the utmost haste in medical settings. I have no doubt this
sense of urgency (and fatigue) contributed to this "breach in protocol." :roll:

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