Realcent.org

I have always been in favor of decentralizing the power of the US Govt., and redistributing that power to where it started/belongs. But, those in power (as we all know) give up that power very reluctantly. Organized political and activist groups see the fruits of their labor amount to frustration as their best efforts to initiate real change are thwarted by the behemoth our government has become.

I'm not sure how I missed the article from last month, but it overviews much that is going on in the movement of those who are tired of playing the game. As one who has been blessed with the gene of discontent (Thank you triple great grandfather from Falling Waters, in what is now called WV) and still having the ability to act on it, this may be something I can sink my teeth into.

Enjoy the read,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/0 ... 16040.html

From the Huffington Post and now to the Misis Institute: http://mises.org/events/mises-circle-so ... 15-houston

to the Sovereign Society's Sovereign Investor by Jeff Opdyke, January 2015 issue, p. 7 "We've reached that stage across America. People feel disenfranchised by government at the city, county and federal level. Many want out . . . which is why we're seeing legitimate secession movements not only spring up but actually make it to the ballot box . . . We want smaller governments that are more responsive to our needs".

A bit more digging reveals my favorite presidential candidate wrote the following essay on the subject back in September of 2014: http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... peful.aspx

And this book by Brion McClanahan was published back in Oct. of 2014: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1629146765/ref ... ecede-4%2F

This movement is getting noticed and perhaps support.

It may be time to ride the train. The train to de-Central Station.

Personally I dont think we would be wise to break up the nation, but putting more power back locally as was originally intended would definitely be good. states rights all the way. Little of this matter imo though, it is all talk. If we could gather the masses for something like this to be carried out in a fruitful non chaotic way, then we could just as easily sway the government in any other ways we wanted, and wouldnt have much of a desire for this type of break up anyway. We retain the tools to correct our system but not the collective will to do it. I do often argue for states rights among friends, but I cant imagine it gains legs enough to make the change. We need some more honesty among the electorate as well. Bush usurps more power for the office, much of the right makes excuses and the left is angry. Obama does it, and the left makes excuses and the right is angry. Both groups had many convinced said leaders wouldnt even give away their power when their reign was over. yet they made excuses for their guy having helped take it further. I have never once heard a soul in my day to day life mention this topic and I do talk politics with people. I think sometimes the nature of the internet makes some things seem more relevant then they are, we see all this buzz, and forget it might be only a small actual percentage, we just happen to all be able to gather readily around an idea online. If the movement does gain legs in a positive way, I think its likely a good move, I just doubt it will happen, atleast as long as TVs function.

Treetop wrote:. . . I think sometimes the nature of the internet makes some things seem more relevant then they are, we see all this buzz, and forget it might be only a small actual percentage, we just happen to all be able to gather readily around an idea online. . . .

I definitely agree here. There are so many blogs and articles being churned out on the Web every day, that writers seem to strain to come up with fresh material. The idea of secession is too much of an attention getter to resist. I also agree that the best path forward is to re-establish states' rights to their 1913 (or perhaps 1860?) status. Finally, if the U.S. broke up there is no guarantee that the resulting states would be democratic and entrepreneurial. These smaller regional powers could easily descend into tyranny and corruption.

I see a lot of small movements, on a verity of issues all heading in this general direction. Not secession per say but changing the status quo and towards decentralization. Not just big government but also including big business and our current way of unsustainable living. Funny you mention TVs functioning. It was the first move I made away from the status quo just before our son was born. I ripped out the cable, tore down the antenna off the roof and almost threw the TV out the attic window. I decided I'd had enough with our current life style and made it change. I picked their bat and ball and threw it back at them. I decentralized the effect our mass media has with it's advertising and brain wash to consume and we started to make our own time instead of the "plugged into the technology to be entertained and persuaded" time they feed us.

When someone makes the decision to no longer buy groceries at America's biggest employer, WalMart and instead joins a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) they are decentralizing away from big box, fortune 500, corporate culture where the children and decedents of Sam have combined assets totaling more than the bottom 40%+ families in America compared to the low wages paid to employees of Walmart Supercenters costing taxpayers between $904,542 and $1.75 million per year, or between $3,015 and $5,815 on average for each of 300 workers for food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing to total $6.2 billion (from Forbes). Again, funded by tax payers. The money spent also staying local with it's own benefits to the local economy.

When someone makes the decision to start a garden or permaculture on their property they are decentralizing away from big-agra and towards a healthier, more nutritious, more sustainable and perhaps happier way of life.

When someone makes the decision to move to a purposeful community based on the morals and values they hold dear they are decentralizing away from the accepted culture the volk have been given and we currently live.

I could go on adding climate change, fracking, and the spectrum of issues we face today. But, I'm sure you get the idea.

The bottom line as I see it is, our current political and economic way of life is not sustainable. And in general, as goes America so goes the world. How do I know this . . . Well, look where it's brought us to and to where we are headed. Now, I look at what all we do as an on line community to preserve the values of the ways of life we are all currently living. It's a no-brainer to see something isn't right and I'll contend the decentralization of ALL the sources of power elite and TPTB of humanity are the answer.

The fact Secession is being talked about, considered, organized on any scale, debated and thought of is a cure being contemplated for the symptom of the disease called centralized power. It doesn't matter the spectrum of issues, it doesn't matter the scale of organization, any step a single person makes or issue an organization puts concerted effort into fighting, if the result of the action is decentralization (taking bats and balls home rather than continue playing their game or voluntary and peaceful non-participation, and/or decentralization) it is the right thing to do because at some point a critical mass will be made and the change will happen.

This is exactly what China and her allied (BRICS) nations are doing with the U$ dollar. They don't like playing with it any more and are organizing and taking steps to stop using it. Can you imagine how much quicker that would happen if the Citizens of America (US) decided and started doing the same thing? How many of US have unloaded their 401K and ROTH, and IRAs? Every FRN dollar we put into stacking copper penny, piece of gold or silver is exactly the same thing WE AS A COMMUNITY ARE ALREADY DOING IT!

We have to stop participating in the ways of politics, economics, culture, and life we know are wrong and start being or living the change or life we want to be, live, or have. Hands down, it will not be easy and many steps (baby and otherwise) may need to be taken. but the steps must be taken.

The trains are all the issues on separate tracks all heading towards the same place. It doesn't matter which train you get on or at what stop you pick it up at 'cuz that place they are all heading is de-Central Station.

Thanx Treetop, you got it out of me.

And thank you Theo for your good comment.

States rights are primary. and Yes, there is no guarantee smaller powers at any level won't descend into the tyranny and corruption our current system is displaying. It certainly would be much easier to deal with than the national scale we currently are.

I am grateful to have this forum to collect and express my thoughts.

These movements you write of had best start multiplying quickly and gain more than half of the population (which I don't see happening in the presence of the handouts from our powerful central government) or tptb will simply crush them by enacting policies that make it illegal to live independently. Those policies are already spreading at a rate that I previously didn't think possible.

I have been de centralizing my lifestyle, and families needs since I left home. It has been rewarding for me, but I can tell you without any doubts it is not the life for most. I was fought the entire time.

even among others on this same train as you call it. Food for instance, go to homesteading forums and see how rare it is someone is growing grains. For those of them that have animals, see how rar eit is they actually grow their food themselves or could manage their health in a de centralized way. The answers are VERY tiny amounts can do these things, some areas not a living soul does. Large swaths of the country in fact. I was in fact mocked and made fun of on major homesteading forums no less. further how many of those CSA growers have de centralized the means they use to maintain fertility? The answer is almost none. Some do, but not most. perma culture you mention? I work in this general arena, Ive met hundreds who use these ideas in some form, but only a tiny minority that grow a significant amount of food with this mindset. Even if all of these loosely related mindsets galvanized behind purposely trying to de centralize, it would take a long time before a significant portion could even offer any significant number a truly de centralized food system. Again most even organic CSA growers are relying strongly on outside inputs. Most of them wont even bother to learn how to produce their own quality seeds. Some areas of the country have a very small percentage who come close to this, but far from enough to feed any relevant percentage of the population.

As a side note, those same CSAs? They are living in a paradigm that never was. Most of them grow the same types of stuff that 100 years ago well over half of american families grew themselves. they would then buy grains and maybe meats on top of it. But now we have farmers supporting themselves financially on tiny tracts of land. grain farmers of the era essentially used economy of scale to keep prices low enough that it was easier to buy it then grow it yourself.


Unless there was a whole de centralized economy built up then the bulk of those eating from a truly de centralized system would need to grow it themselves. This not supporting to much the de centralizing of others part in the food system. You mock wal mart and their obscene profits? Per unit those CSA guys are making eons more then any farmer generation before them or any grocer for that matter. many many multiples. If skilled you can grow on 1-2 acres and lead a middle class lifestyle with ease. Even having off large amounts of time per year. and as I said above most of these people are relying on outside inputs heavily. Most of them arent any more "sustainable" then their "conventional" counterparts. Worse they dont even see this. I brought up all these issues on a semi related thread on a major homesteading forum with dozens and dozens of CSA and related growers all thinking they could feed the nation if we gave them a chance. Sorry but we wont be doing this with over priced veggies produced from outside inputs.

All of this to say... even if the masses wanted a de centralized food system which imo is the easiest avenue to de centralize it would probably take a generation or more to get it done in a truly de centralized way, for any significant portion of the population, and it would look almost nothing like current CSAs. those cushy lifestyles from 1-2 acres loooong long gone.

and to do this while I assume it gets harder and harder to keep food on the table? unlikely as it will simply cost more unless you grow it for yourself, and honestly most seem to spend more trying to grow for themselves then they could save. Look at your grocery store, while new choices are arising for those of us that want quality, for most it is annd will remain about price. Who is going to pay more for ideals when its harder and harder to eat? Some will but not most.

Ive moved towards de centralizing since I first left my parents home. Ive been watching this movement with an eager eye this whole time. The food angle has mad much progress, but it is still only baby steps at a time "TPTB" are centralizing power FAST. While even those here in more fertile places would be hard pressed, and spend much more money and time if they were to buy only local foods. the handful this might work for on this forum, what if they tried buying locally produced foods, that used ONLY local or on site means of maintaining fertility etc? I doubt a single person here could do this beyond me. Even the amish some of you live close to in my experience (I am from ohio and worked on a farm for many years there, and with many amish farmers) rely on outside inputs for most things, besides pastured animals, of which there are only so many. There are exceptions, but not many at all, certainly not enough to build a whole new paradigm overnight.

A drive in my own work has always been to have my growing models rely mostly on onsite or local materials. this is why I can tell you, most just arent thinking about this. Permaculture you say? Go find functioning productive systems producing food in quantity. MOST, and this is a fact, who like these ideas, keep them in the realm of whimsical stories. In fact I was chased off of most perma culture forums since my work is focusing on competing with conventional means rather then focused on painting a pretty picture of utopia for a bunch of wannabes to live out their delusions in. again there are exceptions, some amazing ones in this field in fact, but lots of bugs to work out to replace the current model for one thing, it also takes time to grow in, wed go hungry if we as a nation decided to transfer to such a model over night and converted all at once, assuming we didnt import massive amounts in the meantime.

you mention many different de centralization trains meeting at the same place, but i see this as a blog induced dream. What I see is a bunch of loosely related movements, none of which have enough traction, and currently none of which even offer a model others can fully engage in that is legitimately decentralized. Unless you want to homestead and even that youll need many industrially produced items to live decent and have any free time and to pay taxes.

So for me politically, its different. We need to push to ensure we retain the right to de centralize as we see fit. Retain a bit of personal sovereignty. this imo is an achievable goal within the current paradigms, truly decentralizing even just food for a handful of localities is a generation or more away, let alone nationwide. I rambled a bit but I think I made my point clear enough, lol so Ill leave it. I re wrote it a few times. Ive been on this road many years, and hopefully Im wrong and hordes of americans find paths to truly own their own lives, but I dont see it as even an option on the table currently, and it would take a large concerted effort of sustained will to change that.

Treetop wrote:...
So for me politically, its different. We need to push to ensure we retain the right to de centralize as we see fit. Retain a bit of personal sovereignty.

And that's what we're losing, more every day. See

http://www.caseyresearch.com/freeman/th ... -other-nat

Which is summed up in:

Once, America was truly different. People lived as they wished and barely saw the government. They had rights that government couldn’t touch, not just in propaganda, but in real life.

Now, America is the same as all the other nations, and government reigns supreme. Personal sovereignty has been outlawed.

There are still a few currents from the early days running through American hearts, and I do pray that they continue. But to pretend that American exceptionalism exists on any level beyond that is misleading propaganda… a pretty lie that encourages us to praise ourselves.

Zac:

Such a lengthy reply required me to edit your post so I might be better able to glean the main points of what you are saying. I take full responsibility for the editing and any misinterpretations, errors or omissions are my own from having done so. I am happy we are both able to elicit such detailed and well thought responses from each other.

Also, allow me to apologize for my use of the word "permaculture". I did it knowing you have issue with it's current use and marketing. I also used it because I didn't have better words to express what I wanted to say. I intended it's meaning to reflect what it is YOU are doing to the land around you knowing you would respond if I did. Upon a period of reflection I think I can now call it something different, possibly better defining what is being done. Feel free to correct my interpretation as you see fit.

I now define what treetop does as: "Terraforming for abundance in accordance with Gaia's best practices in America's Southwest".

Treetop wrote:I have been de centralizing my lifestyle, and families needs since I left home. It has been rewarding for me, but I can tell you without any doubts, it is not the life for most. I was fought the entire time.

Those in the vanguard of making change and who are noticed for what they are doing are often ridiculed, demeaned, their works minimized, flamed on the internet (do they still use the word flamed?) and worse. People don't like change and they don't like to admit other's are doing that which they are good at, better than they can do it. This is especially true when it involves their belief system and they are zealous followers of that system and it's founders/leaders. When the "new" way doesn't conform to their ideas, followers attack.

Attacks hurt, threats on family members are not acceptable. if the world is lucky, those making change persist, sometimes overtly sometimes under the radar. Those under the radar or behind the curtain usually have longevity. Those in the limelight (often the charismatic) tend to get taken out.

Humanity benefits from your continued efforts.

Treetop wrote:Even among others on this same train as you call it. Food for instance, <snip> even if all of these loosely related mindsets galvanized behind purposely trying to de centralize, it would take a long time before a significant portion could even offer any significant number a truly de centralized food system.

Unless there was a whole de centralized economy built up then the bulk of those eating from a truly de centralized system would need to grow it themselves.

My thinking tends towards long-term strategic. Here I am thinking several generations. Yes, I will be long dead and in the grave before this happens. Things like CSA, home gardens, and back yard "permacultures" are truly the baby steps. People have to start somewhere. It's not easy stepping out of your comfort zone. For example while I have been stacking for some time, the first time I bought my first full oz AGE, I thought I was going to puke. For me to put that amount of my life force into such a small piece of metal wasn't easy. If fact, it's still the only one I have.

treetop wrote:All of this to say... even if the masses wanted a de centralized food system which imo is the easiest avenue to de centralize, it would probably take a generation or more to get it done in a truly de centralized way, for any significant portion of the population, and it would look almost nothing like current CSAs.

Truly, NONE of these areas is my area of expertise. Food systems, I know little. I have some experience in activism and organizing. Sometimes I can make things happen. At best, God has graced me to see the wrong in the world with the genetic disposition (attitude) and ability to do something about it. But, I can't see all the answers. I know decentralizing the power at the top is right but I don't know what a decentralized food system looks like.

So help me out here, I don't have the answer. I know what Victory Gardens are, but never planted one. What does a decentralized food system look like? How would it work?

What does Victory and Freedom from Big Agra look like with the abundance to feed those participating in it?

treetop wrote:And to do this while I assume it gets harder and harder to keep food on the table? Unlikely as it will simply cost more unless you grow it for yourself, and honestly most seem to spend more trying to grow for themselves then they could save. <snip>

<snip> The food angle has made much progress, but it is still only baby steps at a time "TPTB" are centralizing power FAST. There are exceptions, but not many at all, certainly not enough to build a whole new paradigm overnight.

A drive in my own work has always been to have my growing models rely mostly on onsite or local materials. This is why I can tell you, most just arent thinking about this. <snip> There are exceptions, some amazing ones in this field in fact, but [there are] lots of bugs to work out to replace the current model for one thing, it also takes time to grow in. We'd go hungry if we as a nation decided to transfer to such a model over night and converted all at once, assuming we didnt import massive amounts in the meantime.

It gets harder and harder to put food on the table now. Growing my own isn't easy as I do it now. But, I'm trying hard to learn how to do it otherwise. And yes, baby steps vs TPTB centralizing more power is discouraging. Worse however, is facing the possible reality a collapse happens first before these decentralized systems are put to work and this is what motivates me.

It is not that the changes will take place and systems put into place to prevent or minimize the effects of collapse that motivates. But, that we will already be headed down that path when the collapse happens and those communities and hopefully regions that have begun to institute or have plans for these systems will be able to get them up and running prior to the great kill off that will happen when the current system of food generation and distribution no longer functions.

treetop wrote:You mention many different de centralization trains meeting at the same place, but i see this as a blog induced dream. What I see is a bunch of loosely related movements, none of which have enough traction, and currently none of which even offer a model others can fully engage in that is legitimately decentralized. <snip>

So for me politically, its different. We need to push to ensure we retain the right to de centralize as we see fit. Retain a bit of personal sovereignty. This imo is an achievable goal within the current paradigms, truly decentralizing even just food for a handful of localities is a generation or more away, let alone nationwide. <snip> I've been on this road many years, and hopefully I'm wrong and hordes of americans find paths to truly own their own lives, but I dont see it as even an option on the table currently, and it would take a large concerted effort of sustained will to change that.

All True. They are currently all a bunch of loosely related movements without traction nor a working model. LOL. In fact, I'm fairly sure there is no decentralize TPTB political or social movement outside of the "extent of efforts by city and county governments to decentralize services and give citizens more access to decision makers and influence in public policy determination" (from http://www.library.unt.edu/gpo/acir/Rep ... n/M-71.pdf) . At least not on the broad spectrum I envision.

So I guess that does make this "a blog induced dream". But, everything starts with a dream. From the kid that wants to be an Olympic athlete to the college grad that wants to be a fortune 500 CEO, it all starts with a dream. But, the dream is not enough. Dreamers are a dime a dozen. A dreamer has to GOYA. If you are a dreamer you have to Get Off Your Ass and make something happen. Often, it involves the life skill of goal setting and a host of others. Certainly, you have a dream that is manifesting it self on your land there in the Southwest.

I see you as an Engineer on your own de centralization train. Now maybe it's on a set of obscure tracks no one has ever been on with more track being laid and you have the under the radar working but, I think you are headed for The Station.

Looks like I've taken to writing much more often as my aversion for complacency continues to swell an urgency to activism once again, for the latter third of my life time. The urgency is tempered by life experience and the ever present notion in the back of my mind to assure the genetic line abides. The key is finding the balance between <<DOing>> and staying under the radar (comfort zone?).

Zak had to insight to call my mention of several small movements a "blog induced dream". The man has awareness in areas where many do not tread. Certainly his words increase my own awareness as it appears to me now, I may be using this web site as my personal blog inadvertently. Robert Allen (Nothing Down) taught me is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for and to get permission. So if TPTB here at RC believe it necessary to move this subject to the "educational" Guides/Articles/Blogs section, feel free. No resistance from me.

Back to the subject at hand. Along with decentralizing the Power Elite must come the increase in the opposite, the building or increase of power of the local community. You can't leave a power void or you get what we have in the middle east, ISIS. Community keeps coming up as being the answer to (a lot of things including) centralized power. Finding the answers isn't easy. Many can see the problems, few have answers. However, I did find: http://ifg.org/ they have a section of their web site named Techno-Utopia which finally let me to finding the following on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o9De-G ... e=youtu.be

Helena Norberg-Hodge of Local Futures talks about several of the items and concerns written in the above posts. I also appreciate that she, like me has a bigger picture in mind she actually calls "Big Picture Activism" calling for a "fundamental systems change" AKA revolution. There seems to be a lot to look at @ IFG some of which isn't accessible for some reason. Enjoy the vid.

"I now define what treetop does as: "Terraforming for abundance in accordance with Gaia's best practices in America's Southwest". "

Strange thing, permaculture is copyrightted. If I were to ever write a book about my work I couldnt call it permaculture unless I paid several thousand to go through classes. Ive talked to the teachers of two of these sets of classes locally neither of which taught anything beyond general concepts, nothing molded for this actual area. Having a copyright was supposedly to make it so only skilled teachers would pass on the knowledge and not water it down. That doesnt seem to be how it is playing out as a whole though, far from it.

"Humanity benefits from your continued efforts."

haha. thanks for the vote of confidence. maybe one day. high deserts peoples might.


"My thinking tends towards long-term strategic. Here I am thinking several generations."

That really changes the whole conversation. I was in part responding to an ongoing related conversation with other alternative ag people I know, who think all we need to do is expand local a and suddenly we will own the reigns of our nation and lives again. To some of them they think we are in the middle of a global revolution freeing ourselves from these chains. I dont see it that way even vaguely.


"What does Victory and Freedom from Big Agra look like with the abundance to feed those participating in it?"

Could be many ways, imo if we see it soon in any number it will be from homesteaders. As fast as the local ag movement is growing, it really isnt fast in the scheme of things. There was a time that roughly 10% of people in western cultures were farmers growing the staple type stuff, and most family grew the types of things most CSA will sell today. One person I know, a very skilled grower lives in one such place were these types of markets are expanding fast. She was very adamant I was wrong, then we ran the numbers of local population versus the amount of food their system actually grows. As it turned out those practitioners of the growing ag movement where she lives could barely feed their extended families let alone a significant segment of their population when we consider most of these folks are already using all of their SMALL land holdings to grow crops with high profit margins then its obvious this wont happen soon. Most areas grains arent covered by such a model AT ALL, and animals if covered are much more expensive.

Which isnt me saying not to support such things, I do myself.

This doesnt fully answer your question I may come back to it later.

" It is not that the changes will take place and systems put into place to prevent or minimize the effects of collapse that motivates. But, that we will already be headed down that path when the collapse happens and those communities and hopefully regions that have begun to institute or have plans for these systems will be able to get them up and running prior to the great kill off that will happen when the current system of food generation and distribution no longer functions."

Nothing I said was to discourage you as I hope you understand. Only to say that imo we are unlikely to see such mindsets rise out of the ashes en force of any collapse that happens in the next decade or more. Hopefully I am wrong, and I have many reasons for thinking this though, not just based on one thing. I as well am planting seeds for it, hoping for fertile ground but I expect the pendulum has further to swing towards conformity even through any collapse. this is why for me Im thinking maintaining choice is tantamount. this is america as apathetic as many have become most of us will roll up our sleeves if their was a collapse, but that is something else other then building a new societal model.

Personally if I was wealthier Id be setting up a functioning community based around my ag work. Purposely trying to bring in and hire people of certain mindsets for key roles as much as I am able. I still intend this but it will be many years away, if my fears are grounded in reality then likely well into or after whatever type of collapse looms. I expect the dollars issues and debt issues to cause a major reset for our society if nothing else.

" So I guess that does make this "a blog induced dream". But, everything starts with a dream."

I think I might not have been terribly clear. I didnt mean that the idea itself was blog induced dream, that is the american dream or one of them. lol. It didnt die, it wouldnt die if we went full nazi for several generations I expect.

what I really meant was the idea it is already happening in a significant paradigm changing way is a blog induced dream. to many I know we are already well into a global revolution of sorts, all based on a loose interpretation of the types of things discussed here and various protests. but these folks arent yet anyway truly trying to build a new workable model. the protests amount more to whining then attempts to actually engage or change the structure that got us into this mess, and I expect even when or if there are such pushes that itself will also be as lopsided as that which it attempts to correct. It usually is.

We also have an elaborate government. One that knows all these issues, and intends to keep our societal structure intact through an upheavals.

So for me at this point in my life it isnt so much that I want to lay low, I am here online talking about it after all. I will continue to help support many non chaotic attempts to reform our current power struggle, but this is a generational fight in my eyes. so for me I am making sure or trying to ensure I leave greater options to my children structured in such a way I could help others and expand should conditions have others wanting to join me.

I always take this conversation to a place most find silly, but for a long time I thought alternative ag was a gateway towards something else. I still do, but not in the shape I once thought and many still think, atleast not yet. As they say rome wasnt built in a day, and any societal model that truly is superior to the current that de centralizes power I expect wont see its moment in the sun until the noose gets much tighter on our current model. The response to which imo, isnt getting out our own noose, as many angry people might try, (fighting directly) but to loosen it and offer alternatives for the hearts and minds of our peers.

This is a hard response in that Ive had related conversations with my other friends so often that its hard to talk about it while being on the same page so to speak. One might read this post and think Im not pushing or supporting de centralizing our current model, when I actually think our current model is VERY broken, and de centralizing power is the exact answer we need. the rough shape of our societal structure is the purest any large number of humans came up with yet, but clearly it still lets power get to concentrated, which is not only dangerous but crushing of the human spirit. We can do better. Worse we are played off of eachother and that is in large part why I expect in this phase we wont truly be able to de centralize fully even if many try. I also think we need to be very careful. We have cancer, but we need to be careful to bring a scalpel not a sledge hammer as many want. the sledge hammer is anticipated by the power structure and a response planned.

these are generational issues, with tptb playing chess. so for me its about surviving and thriving, and increasingly being in a position to help others also de centralize who want it since I live in a marginal area and can do more then most, its kinda my duty.

On a side note. Our agricultural system is actually amazing from a historical cultural perspective. It really wouldnt take the government much for instance to keep the nation fed even through pretty chaotic issues if this was a concerted goal. There are several reason this ag model isnt desirable or even workable long term, but they definitely know what they are doing, just have a different vision. I want something even more stable for the truly long term. I thought I should add this so no one thinks that I am against our current farmers, I dont like aspects of the current model and see the places it would cause major issues in the long term but despite those issues we have amazing farmers. conversely being such a centralized system it can fail readily if key components arent in place. for instance it currently relies on outside inputs entirely. BUT this goes both ways, if even in major issues there is the government lets say ensuring those components are in place, then what amounts to a handful of people in a historical perspective could fed the nation. very powerful strategically.

johnbrickner wrote:
Back to the subject at hand. Along with decentralizing the Power Elite must come the increase in the opposite, the building or increase of power of the local community.

Indeed. Took generations to centralize it all, and many benefits came with the dangers which complicates it greatly.

So I'm going thru my Sovereign Investor Daily and there is an article by Ted Baumann (The Sovereign Society) titled Study Reveals Who Really Runs the Country. The study is by Gilens and Page (09/2014,) from Princeton and Northwest Universities respectively. Ted says the following:

"“Who Really Rules?”

Researchers Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page of Princeton recently published the results of a careful review of more than 1,800 different U.S. policy initiatives from 1981 to 2002. They found that “economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence.”

To some, this may seem unremarkable, even unobjectionable. After all, who cares what the average person wants? Isn’t it better to focus on the needs of businesses and corporations, which bear the weight of driving our economy?

Think again. There’s a clear connection between concentration of political power in the hands of an economic oligarchy and the decline of our own liberties."

Ted has a link where you buy the article from Cambridge Journals Online (Cambridge University Press, Cambridge MA) for $30 (Wow, but those Cambridge intellectual liberals are greedy) but, I found the article here in PFD form for all to enjoy here:

http://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/defa ... cs.doc.pdf

I haven't had the opportunity to read it yet so cannot comment at this time. Enjoy the read.

That took a while to skim thru but study results say,

"our analyses suggest that majorities of the American public actually have little influence over the policies our government adopts. Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance, such as regular elections, freedom of speech and association, and a widespread (if still contested) franchise. But we believe that . . . policymaking is dominated by powerful business organizations and a small number of affluent Americans"

johnbrickner wrote:,

"our analyses suggest that majorities of the American public actually have little influence over the policies our government adopts."

We haven't held most of our elected officials accountable for generations. If we did, this might change, until then of course it won't. Control group tested keywords and memes work well enough for the power structure atm.

Well, somebody did it. This morning I found my dream of a website based on decentralization with links to other areas of information leading towards a devolved world. And unlike my dream, based on contemporary technology. It's at http://www.decentralstation.com/ and I'll be using it to the best of my abilities. In short, a vast improvement of the best I could imagine. But then, I'm an old school activist and remember informing the president of our state organization we could use the internet and e-mail to mass communicate with our membership. He said I was a "loose cannon" but, wise man took my advice. How's that for dating one's self?

The next best thing to living your dream is having your dream validated by someone else. Time to change the dream.

I can see a large enough amount of society converting to a virtual digital blockchain world, such that even basic weapons are no longer deemed necessary. At which point the remaining analog despot will physically conquer the world and all those who believed that the blockchain would save them.

Pretty interesting, but I dont see that it would change my life to much. It would have less middlemen so would be a bit cheaper perhaps, and less hackable, but I expect more mainline sources will start using similar tech if they have competition and cover those things as well.

When I think of decentralization my main concern is really self determination, so my fate isnt 100% tied to what my nation and world do, and nothing stops government from regulating any of the things mentioned on the link. The tech might make it possible to do even if they regulate but then Im potentially breaking the law, and I have kids, so no to that.

One thing lately is the legalization of marijuana has put a little gas in the states rights mindset. That is encouraging, what Id love to see is more power locally. Back in the day before nations were so concentrated, we had city states rising and falling. the decisions of one didnt automatically affect the others. Heck even when rome fell a few of their further away cities survived hundreds of years.

I think as far as tech goes a powerful search engine that isnt purposely warped like google is could be an amazing tool Id love to see. Also perhaps cell phones that dont track everything to sell my info like a product.