Raising fish in a barrel.

[Treetop]

I recently started raising fish. I live at the edge of a small town, and cant have chickens. Not enough space for other animals. so it comes down to fish. Many types of fish I would need more water volume then I can maintain easily here in the arid south west. this is a big topic, im going to touch on the ways ive come up with raising fish indoor, or out. the most productive fish for such things and how to feed them. keep the water clean etc.

two types of fish out perform all others Ive read about(Im sure theres a few others out there) for being able to raise a large amount in a small area. the same two fish are omnivores. They are Tilapia and carp. Both tilapia and carp have been farmed in this manner for thousands of years. Tilapia are from warmer areas, and actually i think carp are originally to, but either way at this point carp are adapted to colder regions as well as warm. Im using blue tilapia the most cold hardy of the tilapias to 45-50 degrees overnight. and mirror carp, a selection made by monks in europe that grows much faster then most fish. these two fish convert food to meat WAY better then any land animal, most fish do, but these two also out perform other fish. They eat all the time, and if have a constant food source can grow constantly. If they go hungry for awhile they build energy a bit before growing more.

the common carp was introduced as a food fish, and farm fish in the americas in the 1800s. Being bottom feeders, wild ones dont taste the best, especially in muddy waters. Or so people say. whatever happened they fell out of favor in the states. Its actually the most eaten fish in the world. Raisded in clean water in fisheries, where diet is controlled, they actually perform better in blind taste tests then many other commonly eaten fish!!!! The mirror carp I have, grow much faster and larger then most other carps, especially the ones common in the wild. The also have less scales, and are easier to clean.

so the crux of the situation comes down to how to keep the water clean. It can get very expensive for filters that would work to remove the nitrites and nitrates. which will kill the fish, although these two types can tolerate higher levels then most. such filter are designed for much larger setups. so changing out water becomes a daily thing. being raised inside in 55 gallon barrels.

so in comes the sand filter.... http://www.shared-source-initiative.com ... osand.html

this will do the job. Its to heavy for indoors, so im going to make it roughly 1/4 of the size. Its cheap to make, and cheap to run. there are more hands off designs out there to. and smaller regular aquarium filters, simply cant handle this load. and rely on electricity......

Ultimately, Im going to keep a few breeding pairs indoors in winter, and use outdoor tanks in warmer months. Probably keep many carp outside to, but the tilapia i will have to have inside in winter. this is my first year, so I had to start with small fish. they should be up to breeding size by spring though im told...... Both species are easy to breed in captivity unlike most fish.

[Treetop]

When the fish are outside feeding them is easier. Outside their nitrates will cause algae blooms, their favorite food!!!!

In fact you add well aged manure to the water in a pond, to cause algae blooms. People who do this, take the manure out as it gets cooler, and spread it on their fields. Much better then using the manure directly on the field as it is more nutrient dense.

so in general these guys eat ANYTHING. When they are large enough that is. you can feed them worms, mealworms, other insect, grains, breads, certain table scraps, sprouted seeds, algae, all kinds of things.... when they are small, they eat mainly algae and simlar things......As I said ultimately i will have larger breeders indoors for winter..... so i can sprout them greens, and set up worm and meal worm bins in my shed for protein. also going to train them to feed on grains, and beans, which they like in processed foods. I might have to process it in some way to make it easy to feed them. sprouted seeds are great for them as well, the large ones will eat just about any sprouted seeds. which are often more nutritious then the grains, legumes, or other seeds themselves, and more available nutritionally. so basically, without a insane amount of work, i can raise all the food for these fish if I had to. especially if you had a pond and only had to cause algae blooms.

As long as you keep the water clean, they can live at very high concentrations.

I was trying to explain many things at once here, not sure how well i did. Im still learning as i go, but i should be able to answer any basic questions people might have, or I didnt explain well......

[frugalcanuck]

Where did you go to learn about this

I would like to learn more

[Treetop]

Just a lot of reading...... and a desire to be able to raise my own meat somehow. so I racked my brain trying to contemplate a way...... came across raising fish in small spaces, and expanded my knowledge from there.

[jasmatk]

Very cool idea keep us posted on how it goes ive been thinking about chickens myself but fish never crossed my mind.You could also make a large charcol filter you can buy large jugs of replacment charcoal fairly cheap and use pvc to make a canister to house it.on the chicken note there are so many chickens that escaped and are now wild in ybor city about 30 min from where i live they are now protected as they have become part of the ecosystem.thats acording to the city of tampa they released that statment after people were complaning of the chickens and wanted the city to do something about it IMHO i think they are using that as a excuse not to do anything.i was on a job over there about 2 months ago and seen about 10 of them in a ally tried catching them but i wasnt fast enough couple people walking buy stoped to watch me must of looked pretty stupid running around trying to grab those things

[Devil Soundwave]

Certainly one idea that I have used in home aquaria a number of times is to have a sump attached to the main "tank" to increase the effective water volume.

In your case, you'd need to attach another barrel of water to the one the fish are in via a pipe near the bottom; but put mesh over the pipe so the fish can only be in the one "holding" tank. This would double the effective water volume leading to greater stocking density and/or less requirement to change out the water despite the fact the fish are confined to the one barrel.

Another idea would be to install a biological & mechanical trickle filter which can utilise natural media to filter the nitrate and nitrite from the water, plus sand and activated charcoal to filter out chunks and detritus.

Obviously this would need a pump to help the water circulate; so you'd want to devise a way to operate the pump in the event of a power out (even if only for a half hour a day; though it should be noted teh biological powers of any filter suffer without constant use; so you;d be relying upon the mechanical filtration portion here).

An adapted bicycle or similar could be used to pump the water through the filtration system.

A longish drop for the filtered water to fall back into the tank would be ideal, as you have to bear in mind the smaller the surface area, the less oxygenation available within the water as would be the case with a barrel; thus; you'd want a "waterfall" effect to drive oxygen down into the water for the fishies.

[Treetop]

jasmatk, charcoal is not only cheap, you can make it yourself for free if you have some wood. and I do. Charcoal is good for certain things in regards to the tanks, but they have drawbacks in that they dont pull out the nitrites and nitrates.

devil soundwave, well if I had two tanks like that, I could just care for two tanks. I have two 60 gallon tanks, and will be adding more as they grow. The trickle filters Ive seen anyway, wont handle the volume. BUT you could easily keep your breeder fish going indoors and winter, and use 10 dollar kiddys pools around the yard in spring, growing out your babies, and having one large harvest a year..... that is how some do it, and cheaply.

I addition to the sand filter, there are sponge filters. someone told me about on another forum. the sponge like the sand filter, acts as a medium for the bacteria to live, as in the trickle filter as well, although a much larger area is possible. Because you can make one yourself, and use larger sponges. So with a large homemade sponge filter, and perhaps a homemade charcoal one as well, you can keep the water clean for a large amount of fish.

I still like the sand filters though. because I can set it up to be either manual or automatic. so in event of power outages, I am still able to keep my fish mostly happy.......

[Devil Soundwave]

Problem with charcoal is that it reaches a threshold eventually and then starts to leach the stuff it's removed back into teh water, so you need to be able to replace it regularly.

[Treetop]

Yeah you do, but the bigger problem is it doesnt take out the nitrites and nitrates...... but its still very useful, and if you have wood, you can make it for free.........

[Devil Soundwave]

Looking again at a trickle filter stage prior to charcoal, you could have it planted with aquatic plants, thus utilising the nitrite and nitrate...

[Devil Soundwave]

I was thinking something like this:



1) Sump barrel to allow for greater overall water density for stocked fish, allowing fewer water changes (and potentially none if filtration is right).

2) Sump barrel slightly higher or uphill from the main holding tank.

3) stepped trickle filter between teh two barrles planted to take care of nitrate and nitrite, packed with bio media to nutrilize bad stuff and packed at the bottom with charcoal, fine sand and whatever else4 mechanical media all packed into pantyhose for easy changing to filter detritus.

4) Small volume pump to push just enough water uphill into bottom of sump to keep water circulating down trickle filter and into fish barrel.


WIth enough filtration and a lareg enough overall water volume, you can potentially get away without water changes but merely topping it up occasionally, providing very low maintenance.

Considerations: How would/could you run a pump constantly in a power out? If you couldn't, what other options do you have?

The most ideal scenario for a SHTF situation would be a system that was constantly replenished with wtare from a true-geravity fed water system (such as a stream running through the property), which would negate any requirement for filtration, you'd merely need to ensure teh fish where hemmed in suitably with small enough mesh.

[Kurr]

I was thinking more of combining aquaculture withhydroponic vertical farming. Like the racks for bread deliveries, but mounted on top your barrel.

barrel of fish at bottom and racks of veggies on top, then the water with nutrients/waste is pumped to the top and filtered through the grow medium and what ever other filters you need, cleaning and re oxygenating it for the fish at the bottom.

[Devil Soundwave]

I was thinking more of combining aquaculture withhydroponic vertical farming. Like the racks for bread deliveries, but mounted on top your barrel.

barrel of fish at bottom and racks of veggies on top, then the water with nutrients/waste is pumped to the top and filtered through the grow medium and what ever other filters you need, cleaning and re oxygenating it for the fish at the bottom.

Fanstastic idea, but surely standard land plants such as veggies would die from being water-logged due to the circulation required for an effective filter?

Got links re: hydroponic vertical farming? Never heard of this before...

[Kurr]

You could use a timer, 15 mins on a drip cycle, 15 off or whatever. And you are not using dirt,but a medium such as pumice.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... =&gs_rfai=

[Kurr]

Truth be told when I "hit the bigtime" (ha ha) I wouldlike to buy a farm and try to set up a year round indoor vertivcal farming based in .... wait for it....

Grain silos!! I could have a small pond worth of fish aquariumed in the bottom and several stories of lofted plants. If one works, how many could I fit on an acre? or 5-10, 15 acres? Ahhhhhhh I love to dream and imagine. Just sucks being this far below the poverty line. Baby steps, just have to take baby steps!!

And if it makes you all feel better (shameless plug coming) Everytime you buy A&M products you put my family that much closer to "the dream" of being able to provide nutricious low cost and possibly free food to my surrounding neighbors and communities.

And since this is a gardening type thread every bodyneeds desperatly to be aware of Senate bill 510. PLEASE review this link if you live in the U.S and remeber Obama just appointed a Monsanto man
as the U.S. Food Czar: http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... the-grass/

[Devil Soundwave]

Monsanto! What on Earth was he thinking?

[Treetop]

Devils soundwave... yeah that works, but not nearly the densities, i need if i expect to raise my own fish on my small amount of land. You need 3 ties the surface area for your water plants, and thats 4 times the water. With 4 times the water for the same amount of fish, I could probably to it with standard filters anyway, besides I need to have on hand a much higher amount of water to keep the system going.

you can use certain types of food plants in such a system, but these systems are not by themselves enough, unless you have a huge growing area for the plants, which defeats the whole purpose, of trying to grow them in close quarters. Ive seen working systems where a LARGE bed, of water, like 6 feet by 20, supported maybe a 60 gallon tank, with a dozen fish in it. basically much like densities in a lake or pond. so Id need a HUGE area for feeding myself....

the whole bonus in using such fish, is that i can feed them myself, I can breed them myself, and i can keep them at densities that allow me to do it on my average sized suburban lot.

Building a big terraced system could account for the space issue, but then I need it all enclosed in a heated greenhouse. that is a huge expense......

so none of those will work in my situation. I dont have the space, and i dont have 10s of thousands for a elaborate heated greenhouse, nor the money to keep the greenhouse heated. My fish would end up MORE expensive.

I can however build a sand filter, and sponge filters. And use 60 gllon barrel on their side for breeding tanks, and indoor tanks, and the same coupled with kiddy pools, as my out door grow tanks, easy to sprout algae in outside, in warm parts of the year........ Also the sand filters can be used manually or automatic, so being set up this way I can keep my fish alive and happy in power outages. Some will incorporate the sand filters into the plant system but I ask why? first such systems need to be automated so no bonus of working in power outages. i also takes up space that I dont have, and grows only certain plants, without proper light which i also dont have, without a greenhouse...... and when I do have a greenhouse, because I will soon, it will be much, much more productive being used for other things.....

of course to each his own, dont get me wrong, but this is my thinking.....

[Devil Soundwave]

Cool man, whatever works. Was just trying to help.

[Thogey]

If you all want to raise protein in small areas, worms are the answer. Worms taste just fine. Termites, ants, grasshoppers.

I eat them all the time. If a grasshopper lands on me he gets eaten. They taste like grass. Worms taste like dirt. Termites taste like wood. Ants taste like lemons. They are very mild can be easily cooked and seasoned.

They are at the bottom of the food chain, therefore relatively free of pollutants.

Get over your aversions try little bugs first and work your way up to the bigger ones.

This post is serious, I'm not kidding. If you're worried about high protein food, it's everywhere and cheap.

Six legs only, no flies or spiders.

[Treetop]

Cool man, whatever works. Was just trying to help.

Oh i know. I was just explaining why Im not going that route...... That WAS the original intention..... I even have a bunch of plants still going. Covering all the area in my windows, and it has a very small effect.

[Treetop]

If you all want to raise protein in small areas, worms are the answer. Worms taste just fine. Termites, ants, grasshoppers.

I eat them all the time. If a grasshopper lands on me he gets eaten. They taste like grass. Worms taste like dirt. Termites taste like wood. Ants taste like lemons. They are very mild can be easily cooked and seasoned.

They are at the bottom of the food chain, therefore relatively free of pollutants.

Get over your aversions try little bugs first and work your way up to the bigger ones.

This post is serious, I'm not kidding. If you're worried about high protein food, it's everywhere and cheap.

Six legs only, no flies or spiders.

Well i would if i had to, those are all high quality proteins as far as nutrition goes. but why not feed those to your fish instead? im going to get into raising worms, and mealworms, and such in my shed, in winter, and outside in summer, as well. these fish im using are super efficient, for every 1.2-1.4 pounds you feed them they grow a pound...... Id prefer fish.... But Id eat all that if I had to.

[Devil Soundwave]

If you all want to raise protein in small areas, worms are the answer. Worms taste just fine. Termites, ants, grasshoppers.

I eat them all the time. If a grasshopper lands on me he gets eaten. They taste like grass. Worms taste like dirt. Termites taste like wood. Ants taste like lemons. They are very mild can be easily cooked and seasoned.

They are at the bottom of the food chain, therefore relatively free of pollutants.

Get over your aversions try little bugs first and work your way up to the bigger ones.

This post is serious, I'm not kidding. If you're worried about high protein food, it's everywhere and cheap.

Six legs only, no flies or spiders.

[AGCoinHunter]

Quick question.... Whats it like to shoot fish in a barrel?

Actually this is a great idea. I have the same interest as I cannot have chickens due to zoning in my community. In a grid down scenario would you use solar to power your pumps? A pump system wouldn’t take that much power and a small solar array would handle the job.

[Treetop]

Quick question.... Whats it like to shoot fish in a barrel?

Actually this is a great idea. I have the same interest as I cannot have chickens due to zoning in my community. In a grid down scenario would you use solar to power your pumps? A pump system wouldn’t take that much power and a small solar array would handle the job.

hehe, well you could shoot them i guess, but you might damage your container. yeah i had wanted chickens, or even rabbits, but Id have issues with zoning most likely. Im trying to buy land literally across the street to bypass that, as im right at the edge of town......

and yeah, depending on your set up, the pumps are small enough you could run them with a small (cheap) solar set up. also with the sand filter included, you can keep the water good with no electricity, and have the same set up running automatically when you do have power...... In fact many pumps made for those outdoors ponds people have ARE solar powered.

If you have a outside pond, raising these things is much easier. In fact when outside and its summer, the nitrites will not be an issue, as they will cause algae blooms one of this fishes favorites foods. Many even add manure to enhance that. and take it out later in the year for the gardens...... Lots of variables, but yeah it Is something you can do just about anywhere if you want to...... and doesnt have to be super expensive either....

[Devil Soundwave]

Shame you don't have space for trout.