Page 1 of 1

Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:42 pm
by natsb88
The Justice Department devised the ban by changing its interpretation of definitions in the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968. Current owners of bump stocks will have 90 days to destroy them or turn them in to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Owners won’t receive compensation for the devices.

A senior Justice Department official who briefed reporters described bump stocks as plentiful in the market, estimating there were tens of thousands.

The department’s announcement in March of a proposed ban was hailed by Trump in a tweet saying “We will BAN all devices that turn legal weapons into illegal machine guns.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... rkets-wrap

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:43 pm
by natsb88
bumpstocks.jpg
bumpstocks.jpg (79.3 KiB) Viewed 2525 times

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:48 pm
by natsb88
Gun Owners of America to File Suit Against ATF Bump Stock Ban

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATF) today announced its long-expected regulations banning bump stocks.

I want to assure you that Gun Owners of America is now in the final stages of preparing a lawsuit against the ATF and the Department of Justice to seek an injunction protecting gun owners from these unconstitutional regulations.

We will be filing our lawsuit very, very soon.

As written, this case has important Second Amendment implications for gun owners.

After all, in the coming days, an estimated half a million bump stock owners will have the difficult decision of either destroying or surrendering their valuable property -- or else risk felony prosecution.

GOA will argue that courts should be highly suspect when an agency changes its "interpretation" of a statute in order to impair the exercise of an enumerated constitutional right.

ATF Regulation threatens AR-15s and other semi-autos

The new ATF regulations would define bump stocks as "machineguns" -- and, down the road, that new definition could implicate the right to own AR-15's and many other semi-automatic firearms.

ATF's new bump stock regulation clearly violates federal law, as bump stocks do not qualify as machineguns under the federal statute.

Moreover, bump stocks, which have been in circulation for many years, have repeatedly been ruled by ATF as lawful to own.

This ban was imposed through regulations because Congress has repeatedly refused to amend the law to ban them.

But the ATF has no authority to radically "re-interpret" a statute that is clear and unambiguous. To do so would allow agency regulations to overturn the clear provisions of statutory law.

Will AR-15s soon be deemed "machine guns"?

Statutory law is clear: Under 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), a "machinegun" is a weapon which shoots "automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single FUNCTION of a trigger." (Emphasis added.)

A firearm equipped with a "bump stock" uses the recoil of the firearm, coupled with forward pressure exerted by the shooter, to force the trigger to function more quickly than it would normally. But the trigger is still required to function each time a round is discharged. Therefore, the gun cannot be said to function as a "machinegun."

Another problem with the regulation is that it is overly broad and could later be relied on to ban semi-automatic firearms in the process of trying to ban "bump stocks."

The ATF has previously said that "[Bump stocks] convert an otherwise semiautomatic firearm into a machinegun..."

But hold on a minute. If the AR-15 becomes a "machinegun" -- or even if it is readily convertible into a "machinegun" -- then AR-15's could eventually become illegal as well.

Think the ATF wouldn't use this regulation to summarily outlaw semi-automatics? Maybe not right now. But you can bet that the first anti-gun Democratic president to win the White House will order the ATF to do so.

These regulations would deny honest Americans the enjoyment of their Second Amendment-protected rights.

And so based on these objections, Gun Owners of America will shortly file suit to overturn the illegal, unconstitutional, politically motivated action by ATF in outlawing "bump stocks."

In closing, I would ask two things:

1. For those who own or possess a bump stock and want to contact ATF to turn in your bump stock, please realize that the ATF will likely direct owners to sign ATF Forfeiture (Form ATF 3400.1) and/or Property Receipt (ATF 3400.23) forms.

You are not required to sign any form, but if you elect to do so, note the following.

The ATF Forfeiture form is a waiver of your rights and releases ATF from all liability. So read the form -- and talk to your own attorney if you are thinking of signing it! Even if a court later decided against ATF, a person who signed this form would have no claim.

Unlike the ATF Forfeiture form, the Property Receipt form is simply an acknowledgement that ATF has received your bump stock and you no longer possess it. If you plan to turn it in, then get the ATF to sign this form as a receipt and you keep a copy.

2. For everyone who realizes the freedom implications of GOA's case, please help support this case financially.

By going to his link here, your gift will be tax-deductible and will go directly to helping pay for this case.

The costs are staggering, as our attorneys have already put in a lot of time and effort -- finding the best district to bring a case and getting the most authoritative witnesses.

Not to mention, they've already started coordinating with the plaintiffs and researching the most effective arguments to use.

So I want to thank you, in advance, for your help in this very important endeavor.

In Liberty,

Erich Pratt
Executive Director

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:52 pm
by natsb88
Image

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:16 pm
by aloneibreak
not to be THAT guy but

MOLON LABE

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:04 am
by NotABigDeal
Nothing like a do nothing feel good measure. While I don't have one, I am NEVER for new restrictions. What about belt loops? You can easily bump fire damn near any semiauto rifle that way.

I actually have an insert somewhere that used to be included in the box when you purchased a SlideFire. Legal. Not a firearm. Plain as day.

Without a grandfather clause I think they are just feeling out the waters. This IS a confiscation. Exact penalties for noncompliance, unknown....

I'm still waiting for the outcry against pistols. Guarantee more people are murdered with a Glock (17 or 19) every year than all years combined by a non-bump fired rifle.

Stupidity is indeed contagious....

Deal

p.s. I'm not usually one for lawsuits, but several are needed.

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:17 am
by Thogey
Stupid political theater. Trump just being a show-off to who? I don't like it. Trump being swampy? kinda!

It is what it is. A guy killed dozens of people using them. Bump stocks would be gone by now no matter who was president. Because it's low hanging fruit.For 99.9999% of their owners these are just toys. So they were tolerated. bumptockin a saiga 12 is a glorious thing my friends, from what I heard

There will be no reduction in bump stock ownership either. That's the best part. What are we going to see? bump stock burning parties?



Maybe it will grind through the courts and get overturned. You'd think a suit is coming.

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:43 pm
by NotABigDeal
Lawsuits pending. Go figure. If you own any of these, DO NOT turn them in at (all) least until ALL lawsuits have been settled. If you turn them in and the decision is reversed, you're S.O.L. and your goods are gone.

Deal

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:58 pm
by natsb88
NotABigDeal wrote:Lawsuits pending. Go figure. If you own any of these, DO NOT turn them in at (all) least until ALL lawsuits have been settled. If you turn them in and the decision is reversed, you're S.O.L. and your goods are gone.

Deal

Yep. GOA filed their suit 12/26, the same day the Trump DOJ published its new regulations. They are asking for an injunction to halt enforcement of the new rules pending the result of the case. Could be tied up in court for years.

The NRA didn't do jack squat on this issue. Not enough money from bump stock manufacturers to care, I guess. If fact, in the wake of the Las Vegas shooting, the NRA actually encouraged the ATF to "review" its prior determinations on bump stocks. :roll:

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:08 am
by Treetop
natsb88 wrote:Image


Yep. The supreme court would have been one decision away from outlawing anything semi auto and maybe more. whereas according to what I read the other day the supreme court is apparently expected to block the bumpstock ban. Maybe that is wrong Im not sure. Either way its a huge difference.

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:33 pm
by natsb88
Treetop wrote:
natsb88 wrote:Image


Yep. The supreme court would have been one decision away from outlawing anything semi auto and maybe more. whereas according to what I read the other day the supreme court is apparently expected to block the bumpstock ban. Maybe that is wrong Im not sure. Either way its a huge difference.

:lol:

SCOTUS refused to hear both bump stock cases and sent them back to the lower courts (at least for now). They also refused to issue a stay on enforcement pending the lawsuits.

As of Tuesday 3/26/19, if you own a bump stock and have not destroyed it in compliance with ATF guidelines or surrendered it to an ATF office, you are a felon facing the same 10 years in prison / $250,000 fine as you would for possessing an unlicensed fully automatic firearm, for each bump stock you own.

One exception appears to be for members of the FIrearms Policy Foundation. They got a DC circuit court to issue a stay to "any current bona fide members of Firearms Policy Foundation & the named membership org Appellants," pending their lawsuit.

I've read estimates of 500,000 - 1,000,000+ bump stocks owned in this country. The ATF put it around 600,000.

An ATF spokesman declined Thursday to say how many bump stocks were surrendered before the ban went into effect, adding that the agency "does not feel the number turned in is an accurate depiction, because there were alternative methods of disposal." However, local ATF offices around the country said very few were turned in.

Several states have commented on bump stocks, reporting between zero and ten-ish turned in :lol: . The exception is Washington which offered owners $150 in a buy back program and collected ~1000 bump stocks. Some entrepreneurial individuals probably made some money with that one.

Still, unless owners destroyed the remaining 599,000 - 999,000 bump stocks on their own, there are a lot of new federal felons this week.

Every firearm owner should care about every second amendment infringement because gun control is implemented incrementally. First it was automatic weapons and short barreled rifles and shotguns, then for a while it was "assault weapons," now it's bump stocks. This action, where a regulatory agency reinterpreted old laws to ban things they previously explicitly stated were perfectly legal, without any legislative action, should be very alarming.

It sets a precedent that unelected bureaucrats, at the direction of the president, can change the legality of existing legally acquired firearm accessories and require their surrender or destruction. Just wait until the next Democrat administration (or heck, even Trump after the 2020 election, assuming he wins). Don't get too attached to any other "military style" accessories. 30-round magazines? Oh boy, we don't like those. Let's tweak the definition of "machine gun" to include any firearm capable of holding and feeding more than 10 rounds in rapid succession.

A Hillary presidency would have most likely meant Republicans retaining control of both houses and showing a united front against any gun control action initiated by the Hillary administration. When a Republican administration proposes second amendment infringements, most Republicans turn a blind eye or make excuses, as they are afraid of getting on the party's / president's bad side. Only a few protested this gun grab. Most are spineless.

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:53 pm
by natsb88
trump-tread-harder.png
trump-tread-harder.png (76.82 KiB) Viewed 2399 times

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:43 pm
by Treetop
natsb88 wrote:
trump-tread-harder.png


:roll: lol who did that exactly? Certainly wasnt me. I honestly dont care much because its not a viable tool Id use defending myself but Im not happy about it at all and Im aware of no gun supporters who are happy about it.

Re: Trump Bans Bump Stocks, 90 Days to Turn In or Destroy

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:16 am
by aloneibreak
Treetop wrote:
natsb88 wrote:
trump-tread-harder.png


:roll: lol who did that exactly? Certainly wasnt me. I honestly dont care much because its not a viable tool Id use defending myself but Im not happy about it at all and Im aware of no gun supporters who are happy about it.


just be careful you dont miss the point...

this time its about "bump stocks"

next time it may well be " insert something you DO care about and see as a viable tool "