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Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:45 pm
by natsb88
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Your resource for identifying counterfeit bullion.

I am excited to finally unveil this project publicly. I started acquiring samples of counterfeits more than two years ago and first posted some comparisons way back in April 2013. Those simple infographics got quite a bit of attention and some of them were even published in the June 2015 edition of Lost Treasure Magazine.

In the 2+ years since those early posts I have seen numerous new fakes emerge, have seen significant improvements in the quality of fakes, have acquired dozens of additional counterfeit samples (some coming from helpful Realcent and Bullionstacker members, thanks guys!), have seen the number of fakes on eBay escalate to disturbing levels, ran a gigantic group buy for Precious Metal Verifiers, and have even spotted a few fakes in the Buy/Sell/Trade threads that slipped past experienced stackers on these forums :shock: . It became more and more apparent that the coin and bullion community needs a central resource for cataloging and identifying this stuff.

For over a year now I have been working in my "spare time" (ha!) to bring that resource to market. FakeBullion.com is home to the Fake Bullion Database, a central catalog of known counterfeits featuring side-by-side comparisons, detailed photos, and more in-depth discussion than what my old infographics provided. The Identification section features how-to articles (and videos will come later) explaining various testing methods and tools. There is a News section for relevant media stories and a Blog for commentary.

There is also a Forum for Supporting Members. Acquiring samples, generating content, and building and hosting the website doesn't come cheap. As a thank-you to those who wish to contribute to the project, Supporting Members get to see new entries in the Database 60 days before the general public, and get access to the Forum. I will still be active on Realcent and BullionStacker, but going forward my efforts in regards to counterfeits will primarily be focused on the FakeBullion.com site.

Right now there is a limited amount of content...about a dozen items in the Database and three identification articles. I have close to 100 unique fakes on hand and other testing techniques to discuss, so I will be adding new content weekly. I also plan to make videos to supplement the written articles. But it's time to launch the site and start getting the information out there (and start recouping expenses!).

Before somebody says it, because I know it will come up... Doesn't this site also help the bad guys? In short, sure, it might. However, the counterfeiters have already made revisions and improvements to the fakes, long before this site. To name just a few, the 1 oz Engelhard bars, ASEs of numerous different years, and Pamp and Perth bars in several sizes (2.5g, 5g, 10g, 20g, 1 oz) exist in 2-3 generations, each one improving details over the last. The manufacturers get feedback from their customers (the scammers buying them in bulk), they don't rely on surfing the web to improve their "craft." Secondly, I do have two measures in place to block as much traffic from China as possible. Of course there are always ways to get around that.

More importantly, the benefits of getting this information out to dealers and stackers far outweighs the theoretical risk. We can't stick our heads in the sand and pretend fakes don't exist, or try to hide them out of fear of scaring off potential buyers. They exist, hundreds of thousands of them, and they are becoming more common and more problematic. No government organization can fix the problem, even if they wanted to. It's up to the coin and bullion community and industry to protect itself. Doing your own due diligence is more important now than ever, and FakeBullion.com will be a great resource for that process.

Stack safely!

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:03 pm
by OneBiteAtATime
Nice!

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:20 pm
by Saabman
Well done!!! Thanks for all you do!!!

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:49 pm
by natsb88
Thanks for the support guys. Still a long ways off from recovering all of my expenses, but every contribution helps :thumbup:

FakeBullion.com now has Twitter and Facebook pages, and I am donating $1 to WFTW for every new follower added from last week until this Sunday 8/23. Up to 11 so far.

Recently added Silvertowne and MCM silver bars to the database.

Will be mailing postcards out to mints, coin dealers, "we buy gold" type places, pawn shops, etc. in the coming weeks. If you want to make sure your LCS gets one, PM me their address.

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Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:51 am
by neilgin1
Nate,
you are a great man, a leader, doing what a leader does, LEAD. Thank you so much and expect my support, and prayers.

(I do have "connects" in the Royal Marine Commando community, if you need to grow fangs.......that's a half-joke, not about the connections, just the intent. smiley face)

respectfully, neil

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:23 pm
by natsb88
Got a couple more items added to the database and posted preview photos of about 30 newer fakes in the forum. Also went up one server size today since the site is starting to get some traffic. Now is where all the work figuring out this scalable cloud hosting architecture pays off...it took about 3 minutes to do the upgrade :thumbup:

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:32 am
by natsb88
Here's a new article covering some basic visual indicators that an item may be fake, along with some discussion and photos of the types of counterfeit packaging now coming out of China.

https://fakebullion.com/index.php/resou ... -packaging

Also a recent blog entry addressing the question, "Doesn't this site also help the bad guys?"

https://fakebullion.com/index.php/news- ... e-bad-guys

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:30 pm
by natsb88
Alright stackers, here's a real world test. There are three pairs of coins in the photo. For each pair, which is real and which is fake? I'll post the answers on Sunday. (these aren't in the Fake Bullion Database yet).

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Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:44 pm
by TXBullion
Great content. I flipped through those links this morning and enjoy all the write ups between the blog and the explanations of he counterfeit


Can we guess after Sunday on the fakes ? :lol:

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:19 pm
by natsb88
One person PM'd me the correct answers. Surprised there were no other guesses from Realcent :|

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Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:43 pm
by Rodebaugh
The counterfeits are getting better.

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:03 pm
by natsb88
This week I added a Heraeus bar and two generations of fake silver maples to the database. I have a dozen or so more genuine/counterfeit pairs in hand at the moment that I am working to add.

Purchased a USB microphone, starting to mess with videos a little bit. The built-in mic on my camera isn't the best. Planning to demonstrate various testing techniques, and may add video comparisons to the database items. Also looking for an ultrasonic thickness gauge and an Android device to check out some additional non-destructive testing methods.

Traffic is picking up. About three times as many visitors in October compared to September.

Had a few coin shops join as supporting members this month, my thanks to those guys. Still waaaay in the red on this project :lol: but every bit helps :thumbup:

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:41 pm
by TXBullion
natsb88 wrote:This week I added a Heraeus bar and two generations of fake silver maples to the database. I have a dozen or so more genuine/counterfeit pairs in hand at the moment that I am working to add.

Purchased a USB microphone, starting to mess with videos a little bit. The built-in mic on my camera isn't the best. Planning to demonstrate various testing techniques, and may add video comparisons to the database items. Also looking for an ultrasonic thickness gauge and an Android device to check out some additional non-destructive testing methods.

Traffic is picking up. About three times as many visitors in October compared to September.

Had a few coin shops join as supporting members this month, my thanks to those guys. Still waaaay in the red on this project :lol: but every bit helps :thumbup:


Great to hear on the progress .

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:46 am
by silverstacker
Just want to say that this site you've made has been a "God send" for me and appreciate your time and your efforts in making this possible!

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:54 pm
by natsb88
Just added two new silver items to the database. More coming soon!

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 6:16 pm
by natsb88
Two more items added to the database today :wave:

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:25 pm
by natsb88
Added another silver item to the database today.

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:25 pm
by natsb88
Added another silver item to the database today. I am working on a list of genuine items I need to buy or borrow to do comparisons, I'll add that to this thread soon.

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:52 pm
by beauanderos
natsb88 wrote:One person PM'd me the correct answers. Surprised there were no other guesses from Realcent :|

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just skimming the thread and noticed an extremely easy tell on the top two coins. Anyone else spot it?

The one on the left says 10 oz, the one on the right says 1 oz. :o 8-)

Wish they were all that easy :lol:

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:59 pm
by natsb88
beauanderos wrote:
natsb88 wrote:One person PM'd me the correct answers. Surprised there were no other guesses from Realcent :|

Image

just skimming the thread and noticed an extremely easy tell on the top two coins. Anyone else spot it?

The one on the left says 10 oz, the one on the right says 1 oz. :o 8-)

Wish they were all that easy :lol:

Yep, obvious error on that one. However, they fixed it on a later version.

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:51 pm
by natsb88
Added another counterfeit Kook to the database today. Up to 30 total items.

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:09 pm
by Doctor Steuss
natsb88 wrote:Added another counterfeit Kook to the database today. Up to 30 total items.

:clap:

Still working on the genuine item list? My modest collection is certainly at your disposal... and by disposal, I mean I'll ship it to you if you promise to rub each one for luck before shipping it back.

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:19 pm
by natsb88
Added a 2016 Australian monkey to the database. Another monkey and a maple coming up soon.

Doctor Steuss wrote:Still working on the genuine item list?

Decided to put that in it's own thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=38234

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:21 pm
by natsb88
natsb88 wrote:Another monkey and a maple coming up soon.

These are live now.

Re: Introducing FakeBullion.com

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:45 pm
by natsb88
2014 Koala and 2000 Lunar Dragon added to the database.