Anyone want to vouch for bgretz1989

[Engineer]

You might have a good point about posting the dollar amount in the feedback system.

I'd be against it for security reasons.

With that being said, if I do a small deal with a new member, I'll disclose that it was a small deal in the feedback I leave.

[barrytrot]

No "amounts" posted online for MANY MANY reasons.

Enough said.

[My2Cents]

Personally, I would have handled this differently. Pipster, who I know well, is new here. That alone says a lot. His knowledge here on how things work is small, so I'd be willing to overlook some forum indescretions.

However, given the small amount of money involved, I would have just shipped it and been done with it. I believe that 95% of the people in the world are honest and don't intend to rip anyone off. But we all know that when there's more money on the line, that risk escalates. For an amount this small, I wouldn't worry about it. Hell, $1,000 I wouldn't worry about.... but amounts above that would get a closer look.

Being a new member (like me) has its learning curve. While I personally wouldn't have posted this topic, I can rationalize it. I didn't take any offense from it (by putting myself in bgretz's shoes), but he obviously did, and you can't help how you feel. There's no need to apologize or justify that. It is what it is.

I'm not saying Bgretz is a scammer, like I said, I would have shipped the CTU and not thought twice about it. But I will say that scammers are a crafty bunch, and someone could easily go to Ebay and find a user with awesome FB and come here to sign up with the same username. And when they reference "my Ebay feedback", you might not think twice about it. Unless you actually emailed the Ebay user and verified that it's the same person, you wouldn't know.

I'm just saying that it never hurts to verify online transactions. If someone gets offended, then so be it. If you take both side of an argument into consideration, you can how each person sees things. I see it both ways, but like I said, I would have just sent the package.

[justoneguy]

And when they reference "my Ebay feedback", you might not think twice about it. Unless you actually emailed the Ebay user and verified that it's the same person, you wouldn't know.
.

I actually did that with a new member who told me to check his ebay feedback.
I looked up an auction he had going and asked about realcent.
he verified his info

[stlouiscoin]

This thread should be moved to the MEMBERS ONLY area, or deleted.

I second deleting or locking this thread.

[beauanderos]

maybe we should initiate some form of guideline that new members must first generate three (or more) positive feedbacks as purchasers... before they can list any items for sale? Otherwise, someday (if this hasn't happened already) someone will run across the situation where a noobie with no feedback is questioning a purchase from a seller with no feedback. There are members in the forum who have posted more than a thousand times, but have zero feedback, as I'm sure that there are others who post little, but buy and sell alot. PM's to individuals who have conducted transactions already with the person in question seems to be the route recommended, I've fielded several such inquiries myself in the past.

[frugalcanuck]

I would be against a list of amounts as well.
Im allready a little concerned about the whole feedback system. I understand the reason it is there and I believe it works well for that purpose. However, many of us are not fond of big brother and I think the feedback is a potential weak spot. Im sure some government agencies would love to know of people who do untaxed trading and the feedback would keep a record of this for both parties in the trade. Listing the amount even if it was a range would just offer up alot more information and help big brother refine their targets.
Im not saying get rid of the feedback but I think it wont be harmful to ask the person before if they would like feedback.

[SilverDragon72]

There is no different in sending first or paying first..... On a forum like this. Anyone can be ripped off.

Here's an example lets say after all this bull[excrement] I bought the ctu and paid him first? Who says he for sure would ship? I mean he could use this thread to try and say oh no I shipped.

So catfish sense you seem to be so cautious are you saying you think I'm scamming people? Wow I did a face to face trade with an idiot who ripped someone off. My own transaction with him went smooth so he got the feedback for it. So anyone who had done a deal with him under either screen name, are they on your suspected scammer list?

Well, I took my chances with HCBTT when I purchased a CTU from him. It was my very first purchase via the forums. He is an established member. I sent my payment first, and then the CTU came after that. Good transaction. One other transaction I did with was someone who I met in person.

It's a potential risk that we all take at one time or another. Try to use your best judgment if you can, and gather as much info as you can get...maybe even a phone call.

[christostock]

I'll vouch for bgretz1989
We have our first deal in the works. Nothing completed yet.
Seems fine so far and very reasonable kinda guy.
Should be smooth.

Feedback - Please do not include in feedback, anything about what our deals are worth.
Unless you wish to just add your 2 cents
I slight reference to what it was is fine as I can't remember [shucks].
I would request them to be removed if there where cash amounts

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

I would send a CTU to bgretz first.. but I hate to give up copper as cheap as some folks.

[AGgressive Metal]

The system we have now works pretty well - only gimmesomesilver and pennyboy have ever outright scammed anyone. The handful of other negative feedback is just people backing out of deals. I find it strange bordering on rude to start a public thread asking if you should ship to someone - if you can't figure it out on your own judgement then just don't do the deal or maybe ask some senior members via PM.

[Catfish4u]

The feedback system is a great idea. Would there be a way to make it more visible or point newbies toward it? Maybe have at the top of the market section some kind of 'read the feedback system prior to transacting any trades'? viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11193

I know it is pretty obvious to many of us but most internet users are not used to feedback systems. I have many friends and family that would not know how to utilize the feedback system. They might be able to figure it out but it is much easier making a post with questions. But, the forum would be VERY messy if dozens of users started posting questions like 'is catfish4u honest with his transactions'.

I agree this op should have utilized the feedback and pm system instead of this post. I don't think they meant to directly question anyone's integrity but was just uneasy about transacting business with 'strangers' on the internet.

[SilverDragon72]

The system we have now works pretty well - only gimmesomesilver and pennyboy have ever outright scammed anyone. The handful of other negative feedback is just people backing out of deals. I find it strange bordering on rude to start a public thread asking if you should ship to someone - if you can't figure it out on your own judgement then just don't do the deal or maybe ask some senior members via PM.

Good point.

[Market Harmony]

It's time to be a grown up. If you have a doubt, first ask yourself how your parent / grandparent would handle it...

My guess is that if their first thought was that something was too risky, then they wouldn't waste their time trying to get people to convince them otherwise. They would just avoid the situation. If they thought the risk was manageable, then they would have internally vouched for themselves, held their end of the bargain, and let the deal pan out however it may. As long as they stuck to their word, then they would have felt they were acting in good faith that the other party would do the same.

That kind of deal makes long term trading partners... Immediate doubt only sows distrust.

[Catfish4u]

My parents or grandparents would reply with something like: Are you crazy? You are honestly thinking of sending a total stranger $500 in the mail? You have never met this person or had any knowledge of their existence until a few days ago? You 'know them as catfish4u'? Where do they live again? 'Jim - are you crazy, naive or just stupid'?

That pretty much sums up what my grandparents or parents would say. Thus - we must each establish the amount of risk we wish to take and the level of research to mitigate that risk. JMHO

[daviscfad]

Deal with established members and you don't have as much to worry about. I actually just finished a deal with someone, and they sent a money order, I shipped the items, still have not cashed money order. Never dealt with the person and I don't think they have a lot of feedback. But I have no worries that the money order is bad.

[bgretz1989]

Man I feel famous. Can't we like add a pole to this to see how many people would or wouldn't ship first!?!

[Numis Pam]

Man I feel famous. Can't we like add a pole to this to see how many people would or wouldn't ship first!?!

[everything]

Would or wouldn't ship first with how many transactions first?

This thread is awesome, I love it when people get upset, the testiness, and, lol, men bickering like women, but most importantly the educational aspect. I see gimmesilver could have just been using bgretz in a way, as catfish stated, how would he know anyways. Also, how would bgretz get ripped off in a face to face? Also, the scammer might use the oh, lost in shipping as an excuse? I could see something getting lost in shipping and not being worked out.

We can't put dollar figures in the feedback, the IRS would come knocking eventually. With trust eroding in this world, online communities like this are showing that it is possible that an electronic handshake can work. What we could do is use this thread to establish a method of early detecting a possible scammer, a probationary period is my only suggestion, like 5-10 transactions until you get full trust status, or verification, like when members do know each other locally, or where each other lives, or how to track them down. I've tried to be a little more connected to my local coin collectors but sometimes we are a paranoid lot. I mean cripes, someone could die while in the middle of a transaction, who would know? In the state I live in, for free you can check someone's criminal record, which sometimes gives you an idea of what kind of person they really are.
I think the OP apologized a couple of times, what is cool is that an established member referred him so he's been, likely verified as trustworthy. Still, all this over one CTU?, it just doesn't get any better!