Fined for paying bill in pennies

[kidman232]

VERNAL, Utah – A Utah man has been cited on a charge of disorderly conduct after paying for a disputed medical bill with 2,500 pennies.

The Deseret News of Salt Lake City reports Jason West went to Basin Clinic in Vernal on May 27 prepared to dispute an outstanding $25 bill.

Assistant Vernal Police Chief Keith Campbell says that after asking staff members whether they accepted cash, West dumped 2,500 pennies on the counter and demanded that staff count them.

Campbell says the incident upset staff because pennies were strewn about the counter and floor, and West's action served "no legitimate purpose."

Police later issued the 38-year-old West a citation for disorderly conduct. That carries a fine of as much as $140. Or 14,000 pennies.

[slickeast]

REPEAT

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6222

[Number21]

Don't the police have better things to do? I really can't see how that could possibly escalate into a call to the police unless the man was completely throwing a tantrum like a 5 year old...

[John_doe]

Sounds like a good way to dump some zincs!

[SGT_Slaughter]

legally they have to accept them but on the other hand i think the burden of proof of a correct count (of pennies) would be on the guy bringing them.

just my opinion.

[Morsecode]

They are not legally compelled to accept them. Hell, you can't bring loose, uncounted change to most banks.

We have mandatory auto emissions testing here in the Nanny State, which requires a $20 payment in cash only. Unhappy taxpayers have tried in the past to protest with cents, nickels, etc...all have been refused.

[cesariojpn]

Plus the guy just DUMPED the lot onto the counter, with some of it spilling everywhere. A little tact goes a long way.

[SGT_Slaughter]

http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp

im still on the fence for this one. So can anyone prove that pennies have to be accepted or can they be denied as a form of payment.

[psi]

I have seen it argued that legal tender laws relate to whether or not you can be successfully be sued for nonpayment of a debt. In this case that seems never to have come into it, it's more the fact that he decided to dump thousands of coins all over the place for no real reason except to be a jerk. The same thing would likely have happened if it was a bucket of smarties or dog kibble or something else that he had dumped all over the place instead.

[TwoPenniesEarned]

In Canada no-one is obligated to accept more than twenty-five pennies or forty nickels in payment. It's written clear as day in our currency act. (The one that denotes these now worthless tokens as legal tender).

[68Camaro]

In Canada no-one is obligated to accept more than twenty-five pennies or forty nickels in payment. It's written clear as day in our currency act. (The one that denotes these now worthless tokens as legal tender).

Same was true in US until 1965. (Though details differed.)

[68Camaro]

http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp

im still on the fence for this one. So can anyone prove that pennies have to be accepted or can they be denied as a form of payment.

Very rewarding reference. Thanks for posting it. Revealed all sorts of subtle things to me. The details of the Coinage Act of 1965 had escaped me until now.

But as to the main question, (my opinion only), it appears like anyone can require payment in any form they choose, but if they haven't been specific about payment requirements, and they took you to court for non-payment because you offered payment in a legal tender form (for example, pennies) that they didn't like (but hadn't previously forbidden), they would lose. I think there would be a reasonableness test applied, such that you couldn't just dump a pile of pennies and walk away. I believe you would be expected to demonstrate somehow (weight, count, wrapped rolls, etc) that the required number of coin was there.

[oktyabyr]

I believe too, that they can refuse to accept payment in exchange. However, because it is a debt(medical bill for service), they must accept ANY legal tender payment unless previously excluded. He was kinda a jacka$$ for just dumping them, and them going everywhere. The disorderly conduct I'm sure came from the way he handled the situation. If he had been calm and just placed them there, there would not have been cause for a disorderly conduct ticket.

[psi]

It might also help if you were accompanied by a witness when making the payment. I think legal tender definitions only come into play when you really are dealing with a debt, such as a previously rendered service or a restaurant or gas tab. If for example you are trying to buy something at a retail store with a form of currency that gets refused (e.g. coins or a large bill), it seems you are just SOL unless you can pay in the form they want you to.

[68Camaro]

I believe too, that they can refuse to accept payment in exchange. However, because it is a debt(medical bill for service), they must accept ANY legal tender payment unless previously excluded. He was kinda a jacka$$ for just dumping them, and them going everywhere. The disorderly conduct I'm sure came from the way he handled the situation. If he had been calm and just placed them there, there would not have been cause for a disorderly conduct ticket.

I wasn't specific enough, but I agree. If you make an offer of exchange, I'm not aware of any reason they have to accept. But if there is an existing debt, and the contract doesn't mandate payment in a certain form, you can offer to pay in any legal tender. If they then refuse to accept it, they would have no court case.

Agree that the police action was for being a jackass, which he was.

[scrapper2010]

Seems kind of dumb to get THAT rude over 25 bucks. There are people struggling with far higher medical bills.

[gojomoso]

Seems kind of dumb to get THAT rude over 25 bucks. There are people struggling with far higher medical bills.

seriously
well now on the new healthcare the hospitals get payed over customer satisfaction... that hospital(?) wont get paid next time

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

You can tell there were no RealCent'ers there in that joint. IF there had been, they would have thanked the man for un-rolling the pennies for them and asked if the guy could deliver $500 that way on a weekly basis!!

[Number21]

I rent a small commercial building for my business, the landlord is an idiot and a jerk. I seriously am considering dropping off $900 in zincs for rent. I can see her face now as I bring the hand truck back to her door 58 times.....

My rent is a debt owed, my lease specifies payment in cash or check to a specific address. Pennies are "legal tender for all debts public and private". I'm so nice I'll even deliver in person to save the mail man the trouble!

[hobo finds]

I hope he pays the fine in cents! Will they fine him again?

What if he mailed them to pay the dept? The hospital cerntanily would not have mailed them back would they?

[Copper Catcher]

This has been tired a number of times from people all over...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwo5TE5tcVQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLQEE1kBKpM

[John_doe]

I rent a small commercial building for my business, the landlord is an idiot and a jerk. I seriously am considering dropping off $900 in zincs for rent. I can see her face now as I bring the hand truck back to her door 58 times.....

My rent is a debt owed, my lease specifies payment in cash or check to a specific address. Pennies are "legal tender for all debts public and private". I'm so nice I'll even deliver in person to save the mail man the trouble!

[OtusLotus]

Unfortunately, in our world, everything is a business... We sort coins, own a business, manage our lives in a way that we maximize what we take in, and minimize the costs of that existence....

For everyone outside of "our world", pennies are a nuissance, a worthless form of security, and a money losing proposition!

So for someone to expect someone else to accept the Penny as payment for anything, is almost ludicrous... Just as I was upset that the gas station didn't accept my debit card and gave the guy $12 in halves, it was an obnoxious way to tell the service station, company, gov't agency- to go screw!

The lowly penny will never be accepted today, or in the future, as it was before I was alive.

The question is, if the bill was paid for all in nickels or dimes, do you think it would have landed the guy in jail or gotten the headlines?

[John_doe]

Unfortunately, in our world, everything is a business... We sort coins, own a business, manage our lives in a way that we maximize what we take in, and minimize the costs of that existence....

For everyone outside of "our world", pennies are a nuissance, a worthless form of security, and a money losing proposition!

So for someone to expect someone else to accept the Penny as payment for anything, is almost ludicrous... Just as I was upset that the gas station didn't accept my debit card and gave the guy $12 in halves, it was an obnoxious way to tell the service station, company, gov't agency- to go screw!

The lowly penny will never be accepted today, or in the future, as it was before I was alive.

The question is, if the bill was paid for all in nickels or dimes, do you think it would have landed the guy in jail or gotten the headlines?

there is a possibility of them being used as a medium of exchange, but only if the currency hyperinflates. In which case they will be very valueable and highly sought after. (moreso than silver and gold IMHO) there is an abundant supply, and it is a real asset.

[cesariojpn]

He's proud of his actions, but won't **** with the Law if he's fined.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=15855524