Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:25 pm
by John_doe
Kurr wrote:defamation [ˌdɛfəˈmeɪʃən] n 1. (Law) Law the injuring of a person's good name or reputation Compare libel, slander 2. (Law) the act of defaming or state of being defamed
li·bel (lbl) n. 1. a. A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation. b. The act of presenting such material to the public. 2. The written claims presented by a plaintiff in an action at admiralty law or to an ecclesiastical court. tr.v. li·beled or li·belled, li·bel·ing or li·bel·ling, li·bels To publish a libel about (a person). See Synonyms at malign.
slan·der (slndr) n. 1. Law Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation. 2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone. v. slan·dered, slan·der·ing, slan·ders v.tr. To utter a slander about. See Synonyms at malign.
ma·lign (m-ln) tr.v. ma·ligned, ma·lign·ing, ma·ligns To make evil, harmful, and often untrue statements about; speak evil of. adj. 1. Evil in disposition, nature, or intent. 2. Evil in influence; injurious. 3. Having or showing malice or ill will; malevolent.
Eat em up. I am honest and tell them what I do as well. I have had a branch inform every branch in the district about me, and changed the policy to "we do not sell any coin to individuals in any amounts anymore, businesses only" at every branch within driving distance I could find for that company. That did not last very long let me tell you, ha ha ha. That was back in 09 when the 4 designs were HOT and I was looking for the railsplitters.
Other banks I deal with think I'm some kind of eccentric mild genius for having the insight to do this and JPM opening a copper ETF just proves my point to them.
You get BIG POINTS for speaking "truth to power" in bringing up that they create money out of THIN AIR, make you put up physical COLLATERAL for the imaginary money, loan it to you, then have the stones to charge you interest.
Good on ya. YOU did not screw up. You are well within your rights, and Greshams Law is an established economic phenomonon.
Good luck brother, you have an oppertunity.
i was about to post this, then I read further.
Own!
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:41 pm
by Thogey
Go ahead and lawyer-up on every disagreement.
My point is, this can be handled man to man.
You all can fuel the never-ending, circular, lawyer arguing with lawyer and payouts for nothing.
It's just not part of my wild-west attitude. The sound of the word LAWYER makes my stomach turn.
Go ahead and employ your lawyers. I'll handle my [shucks] man to man, unless I suffer and irrecoverable tangible loss.
Then maybe a bloodsucker.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:56 pm
by Kurr
There are reasons not to hire an attorney. When you do you become a client. A client is considered a ward of the court. A ward of the court is an infant or person of unsound mind. There is the case for pro se representation in that. However....
Thogey, if someone committed criminal trespass upon you, robbed you, assaulted you or a family member, etc etc, would you not call a law enforcement officer/police? They are there and it is there job to handle criminal law.
Goldteam had something JUST as illegal as an assault upon his person, but officers and criminal courts do not deal or consider civil law which is the jurisdiction this case would fall under, I believe. To provide remedy to the wrong done to him, he needs to bring suit in some way.
if in the original post where he said:
He says melting the pennies is illegal....."I'm not melting pennies".........."Well, you are taking the copper out".........
If he knew you were not melting them and from his professional position mis-represented the law to by continuing to say it was illegal, that could very well be a serious proffesional ethics violations charge as well, if my thinking is correct.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:03 pm
by John_doe
NiBullionCu wrote:Looks like you found your Dump bank...
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:03 pm
by Thogey
I know all that Kurr, and I'm not implying that anyone here is 'legally' wrong.
I guess it's just a lifestyle choice. My line is a lot further back than others as to what level of legal tresspass is worth dealing with a lawyer.
I guess dragging a lawyer into our lives is a sign of the times.
You guys can have all the fun with the lawyers. I chose to stick up my middle finger and call it good.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:11 pm
by John_doe
Kurr wrote:There are reasons not to hire an attorney. When you do you become a client. A client is considered a ward of the court. A ward of the court is an infant or person of unsound mind. There is the case for pro se representation in that. However....
Thogey, if someone committed criminal trespass upon you, robbed you, assaulted you or a family member, etc etc, would you not call a law enforcement officer/police? They are there and it is there job to handle criminal law.
Goldteam had something JUST as illegal as an assault upon his person, but officers and criminal courts do not deal or consider civil law which is the jurisdiction this case would fall under, I believe. To provide remedy to the wrong done to him, he needs to bring suit in some way.
if in the original post where he said:
He says melting the pennies is illegal....."I'm not melting pennies".........."Well, you are taking the copper out".........
If he knew you were not melting them and from his professional position mis-represented the law to by continuing to say it was illegal, that could very well be a serious proffesional ethics violations charge as well, if my thinking is correct.
Where he gets the banker is through the email slandering his otherwise good name. This could not only cost him money, but reputation. He can't really get him for his conversation between the two, but if he can get the emails and prove this was done, he would probably have a strong case.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:29 pm
by psi
Interesting thread, neat that goldteam actually made some headway in the discussion with the bank manager. I tend to agree with Thogey that a lawsuit is probably unnecessary in this case, assuming the manager clears up the misunderstanding with anyone he contacted about it as he said he would do. There was a news story recently where a couple of "security researchers" hyped up a story that Samsung was supposedly installing keyloggers on consumer laptops to spy on users. The original article had made all kinds of unproven allegations against Samsung that turned out to be completely untrue, so you could argue a defamation suit against the writers was justified, but the company did not take that route which I think shows some class.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:39 pm
by jerry278
I am in no way offering legal advice. But I do believe you should get something out of this whole mess. If you could with out getting that teller fired that seemed like it would be ideal.
It doesnt seem like a LAWSUIT is necessary. However, that doesnt mean you still cant get a lawyer involved. If you as much, sent them a letter from a lawyer stating the situation and that you were 'CONSIDERING' taking legal action, they'd be shaking in their boots, and most likely you could get as many boxes of pennies that your heart desired to not go to court. I know lawyers have a bad stigma, but understand that the banks will really only take you seriously in this situation with a lawyer. Thats just how they play. Think if the tables were turned: If the bank did find out that you were doing something illegal they'd be the FIRST ones to get a lawyer involved and take it straight it court. Something to consider. You broke no law. The bank broke the law in this situation. If you pursue it or not is up to you, but at the very least, I think that you should let them know in writing that you are AWARE that THEY BROKE A LAW here, not you, and if you wanted to COULD pursue legal action.
The whole thing seems very embarrasing and humilating to say the least. The nerve of them to accuse you of breaking the law, when they were the ones breaking the law.
Just make sure they KNOW THAT THEY WERE IN THE WRONG IN THAT SITUATION, BIG TIME.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:44 pm
by barrytrot
Thogey wrote:Go ahead and lawyer-up on every disagreement.
My point is, this can be handled man to man.
You all can fuel the never-ending, circular, lawyer arguing with lawyer and payouts for nothing.
It's just not part of my wild-west attitude. The sound of the word LAWYER makes my stomach turn.
Go ahead and employ your lawyers. I'll handle my [shucks] man to man, unless I suffer and irrecoverable tangible loss.
Then maybe a bloodsucker.
So you would be ok if a respected authority issued statements to others that you were a criminal? I doubt it.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:50 pm
by barrytrot
Thogey wrote:I know all that Kurr, and I'm not implying that anyone here is 'legally' wrong.
I guess it's just a lifestyle choice. My line is a lot further back than others as to what level of legal tresspass is worth dealing with a lawyer.
I guess dragging a lawyer into our lives is a sign of the times.
You guys can have all the fun with the lawyers. I chose to stick up my middle finger and call it good.
Thogey, I bet for everything other than corporate purposes the COMBINED "laywer usage" on this whole site is practically nil.
However, wisdom dictates that sometimes extreme measures are necessary. In the case of someone accusing me of a felony - that's one of those cases!
You are rudely implying that the people here are overly litigious which I can tell you immediately based on the people here, is absolutely not the case.
Also, fyi, the "middle finger" move can be considered "incitement" and therefore lead to legal battles by itself
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:57 pm
by pennypicker
Never admit to anything more than is required of you---be it in a bank or a court of law!
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:18 pm
by Thogey
barrytrot wrote:
Thogey wrote:I know all that Kurr, and I'm not implying that anyone here is 'legally' wrong.
I guess it's just a lifestyle choice. My line is a lot further back than others as to what level of legal trespass is worth dealing with a lawyer.
I guess dragging a lawyer into our lives is a sign of the times.
You guys can have all the fun with the lawyers. I chose to stick up my middle finger and call it good.
Thogey, I bet for everything other than corporate purposes the COMBINED "lawyer usage" on this whole site is practically nil.
However, wisdom dictates that sometimes extreme measures are necessary. In the case of someone accusing me of a felony - that's one of those cases!
You are
rudely
implying that the people here are overly litigious which I can tell you immediately based on the people here, is absolutely not the case.
Also, fyi, the "middle finger" move can be considered "incitement" and therefore lead to legal battles by itself
Rude?
Sorry to all I've offended by my OPINION.
Also, fyi, the "middle finger" move can be considered "incitement" and therefore lead to legal battles by itself
enough said.
I just don't have the LEGAL education to continue with this.
I don't think anyone here is overly litigiuos, that is your opinion, and I consider that unsupported labeling of MY opinion slanderous.
You'll hear from my lawyer in the morning!
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:24 pm
by Corsair
Thogey: 1. World: 0.
Eric has a point. Everyone knows that America is the home of ridiculous lawsuits. But this one isn't ridiculous. It would be well-founded, well-supported, and important.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:30 pm
by barrytrot
Thogey wrote:I don't think anyone here is overly litigious, that is your opinion, and I consider that unsupported labeling of MY opinion slanderous. You'll hear from my lawyer in the morning!
Check mate
Anyway, as Corsair and I have both indicated: This is not just suing for no reason. There is a very big reason.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:33 pm
by Thogey
I can live with that, and we'll part ways on that note.
Going back to metals gentlemen.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:46 pm
by Redneck
.
He questioned your integrity and then dragged your good name through the mud.
There is only one way to handel this injustice, and that's face to face,
Like Thogey says, you don't need no stinking lawyer...
Well,,, maybe,,, afterwards...
>
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:59 pm
by Rodebaugh
100% w/ thogey on this one. Chill out and move on. Put that energy towards something productive in your life.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:00 pm
by goldteam
i have no interest in suing the guy. He literally thought I was melting them and I did have a poor choice of words. I said I was pulling out the copper. He took it to mean I was literally taking out the copper. I can understand that.
What I am more pissed off at is the fact he still calls it unethical. THAT IS FLAT OUT RIDICULOUS!
This is a clown who just doesn't get it. That''s the way I look at it.
Again, I blame myself just as much for this. I posted this more for the fact I shouldn't have opened my mouth.
I think he called my bank to have them call me in and convince me to not be melting coins. I think in some ways he was looking out for me and had no clue of how wrong he was. I don't feel that is something some dam lawyer needs to be involved in.
I'm a big boy. I can handle myself. I actually think I stated my point and won the argument. On the other hand I lost, as I won't be getting pennies from there.
I have Wells Fargo in my back pocket, and I will just find another bank in town to take their place with the pennies.
I don't believe a lawyer is warranted.
I do thank all of you for your responses and I truly appreciate the advice and support.
I never expected this thread to be so popular or to have so many opinions. I value all your expertise as most of you get it, while most don't.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:54 pm
by Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay
I am sorry that I was not very clear in my earlier post. I never meant for anyone to go into a court of law. Notice I wrote for you to find a reputable lawyer and a good lawyer.. The person I speak of is far better at giving good advise than dragging people into court. In fact a good and reputable lawyer would only go into court as a last resort.
The bank manager did indeed wrong you when he put out the word you were engaged in "unethical" behavior. A "demand" letter for him to cease and desist such actions would warn the manager to leave you alone from now on.
You are happy you handled it yourself. Okay, enough said.
I love working for lawyers. They usually have money to spend. They read my contract that was prepared by two lawyers of different law specialties and we have very good working relationships. I pick their brains as much as I can and when I do have to spend a little money for their help, it is worth every dime I have ever spent. I had a terrible lawsuit against me that took 5 years to litigate. My lawyers saved me money at least 10 to 1 on what it could have been.
Yeah, Thogey, that was not the best advise you could have given about tearing open plastic wrappers on proofs!
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:31 pm
by jerry278
Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:I am sorry that I was not very clear in my earlier post. I never meant for anyone to go into a court of law. Notice I wrote for you to find a reputable lawyer and a good lawyer.. The person I speak of is far better at giving good advise than dragging people into court. In fact a good and reputable lawyer would only go into court as a last resort.
The bank manager did indeed wrong you when he put out the word you were engaged in "unethical" behavior. A "demand" letter for him to cease and desist such actions would warn the manager to leave you alone from now on.
You are happy you handled it yourself. Okay, enough said.
I love working for lawyers. They usually have money to spend. They read my contract that was prepared by two lawyers of different law specialties and we have very good working relationships. I pick their brains as much as I can and when I do have to spend a little money for their help, it is worth every dime I have ever spent. I had a terrible lawsuit against me that took 5 years to litigate. My lawyers saved me money at least 10 to 1 on what it could have been.
Yeah, Thogey, that was not the best advise you could have given about tearing open plastic wrappers on proofs!
Sheikh I think a lot, including myself, we're getting at what your saying. Some sort of 'cease and desist' letter. If you HAPPEN to have a lawyer friend I am sure they wouldnt mind spending 10 minutes to write one. It could easily be less time than driving back and forth between branches asking for an apology and much more formal at that. It would let the banks know to better watch their tongue, and if goldteam decided to keep banking there I am sure he would get the BEST of service with as MANY BOXES he wants.
I dont think any of us we're suggesting goldteam takes this matter to the supreme court
More power to goldteam to be able to 'roll with the punches' tho
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:06 am
by TwoPenniesEarned
I just tell them that I collect old coins and that I like going through them with my kids. Both of these statements are true, I just conveniently forget to tell them how many of the old coins I collect.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:37 am
by Johnny99
TwoPenniesEarned wrote:I just tell them that I collect old coins and that I like going through them with my kids. Both of these statements are true, I just conveniently forget to tell them how many of the old coins I collect.
Exactly. To a 19 year old teller, 1982 IS old.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:56 am
by Crescendo
FYI: Read the fine print in the disclosures of bank accounts when you open an account. I guarantee in there, somewhere, it states the bank has the right to deny you transactions, and close your account, at will. So for them to refuse you coin is justified according to bank policy.
Now slander is a different story. But really, if they thought this guy was doing something illegal, and didn't call the cops, that's actually complimentary (or dumb) to some extent. Actually, technically it is illegal for them not to report you to a legal system, according to bank policy and federal regulations. I believe the actual proper word use is willful blindfullness. So really, by contacting a lawyer, you'd probably get any employee that was aware of this situation, and did not contact the authorities, terminated. So keep that in mind.
Regarding the slander, eh. Did they call other banks or just branches within the company? Unless they spoke outside of the company to third parties, it was not slander. And it really sounds like hearsay anyway. Plus, what you are doing could be construed as unethical. Since ethics is an opinion, not a fact. So really it is in the eye of the beholder. Therefore, when you're in the bank, you can say what you want for the most part whether you say copper, silver, or blind monkeys, or she sold seashells by the seashore. Just don't say things inappropriate like stealing/robbing the bank/pass a note/etc. The first list of words depends on the people there. The second is just inappropriate in the banking industry to say.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:38 pm
by Corsair
Crescendo wrote:Regarding the slander, eh. Did they call other banks or just branches within the company? Unless they spoke outside of the company to third parties, it was not slander. And it really sounds like hearsay anyway. Plus, what you are doing could be construed as unethical. Since ethics is an opinion, not a fact. So really it is in the eye of the beholder. Therefore, when you're in the bank, you can say what you want for the most part whether you say copper, silver, or blind monkeys, or she sold seashells by the seashore. Just don't say things inappropriate like stealing/robbing the bank/pass a note/etc. The first list of words depends on the people there. The second is just inappropriate in the banking industry to say.
I never knew that slander was confined to lying about someone between different companies, rather than the same. So if I go to Wal Mart and tell a manager there that I'm sorting pennies, and he calls all other Wal Marts in the USA and tells them I'm doing something illegal, since it's the same company, it's not slander? I don't think that's quite the law.
Re: I screwed up royally but then had to get pissed at the s
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:00 pm
by VWBEAMER
Slander is VERY hard to prove in court, and besides, what are his damages......in Dollars? Non that I can tell.
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:25 pm
