Ryedale & Indian Head / Early Wheats

[lahmejoon]

Hi All,

I'm not sure if this is the right place, or if I should have posted this in the Ryedale section. There was discussion awhile back about getting a false negative when feeding certain wheats or indian heads through the Ryedale, since the metal content may not have been as pure. For the experts out there who are seasoned Ryedale users, do you find that this happens regularly? Granted, you don't find indian heads or early wheats with regularity, but I'm curious if you end up sifting through the zincs to see if anything may have been missed, even after running it through for a second time.

Thanks in advance!
Aaron

[misteroman]

43 and under usually fall in the rejects. I do a quick look before and during and when I'm dumping at coinstar. Fee free of course!

[lahmejoon]

Have you tried using a pre-'43 as the sample coin to do a rerun with any success?

Basically, I'm contemplating buying a machine and wanted to see how you guys handle this issue.

Thanks!

[Diggin4copper]

I do a quick eye sort as Im dumping the zincs into a 5 gallon bucket, then I eye sort when filling bags to bring to the dump bank, then eye sort as Im dumping.. I find an early wheat every once in a while..

[tinhorn]

Indian heads are supposed to be 88% copper, so they'll ALL be rejected if you run a copper accept. My coins pass through FOUR--count 'em, four!--comparitors and I still find wheats in the final rejects. The best way to capture IHs is to first sort with a zinc accept (they'll be rejected) followed by a copper accept (they'll be rejected). Wheats? Good luck with those.

[lahmejoon]

Thanks for the feedback. How much volume do you guys do? In general, I suppose using the zinc as the sample may be the best first step, in that it should reject anything that isn't 97.5% zinc? Then you would probably be left to eyeballing the rejects for wheats / IH's.

[misteroman]

def not worth it to sort for those early CU. You might get 1 or 2 in the 30's every box or two so really not worth sorting them all twice for that reason. If you see them great, if not no really big lose.(you hope!)

[Ecotic]

I've found 2 Indian Heads before that got thrown into the zinc reject, and early wheats tend to be rejected too. However, I have found some mid-wheats that fell into the copper side, 1924 and 1918 actually just a few hours ago.

[uthminsta]

How much extra effort is it worth? Consider how often you find something worth a little extra - versus the extra wear (depreciation) on your Ryedale from doing that second or even third sort. I don't know what I would do - I don't yet have a Ryedale. On the other hand, I found an Indian A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, and still remember the feeling. Just sayin.

[creshka46]

I'm curious about this too now.... I just want to make sure I understand what everyone is saying. If you run the comparitor with a zinc in it, will the early wheats and indians be accepted or rejected?

[fasteddy]

the rejection really depends on how sensitive the machine is...one of my units will only do a copper accept...has no sensitivity towards zinc at all. The other I can adjust it to reject the canuck o pennies....I have found IH's from both sides of this machine. The IH's signature is very simialr to the zinc so it is difficult to sort using an IH. You have to find a happy medium...mine is dump all the zincs....then sort the Cu to reject what may be hiding in there. Canadians, early wheats and other coin non 95% Cu comes out. Hand sort this very small pile, return the zinc, store the Cu and be happy. If i was looking for every wheat and did not want to miss an IH, then I would hand sort.

Tuesday's is my dump day...8 bags going back, today. Good luck.

[lahmejoon]

Thanks, everyone. I'm looking at this a bit more from a collector standpoint than a copper hording standpoint. I want to sort and keep the copper, but I also thought it would be cool to fill up an album with various dates and mints that I find. In that respect, I wouldn't mind the extra wear on the machine to try to make the process as automated as possible and then do a light hand sort at the end.

[CardsNCoins]

......The best way to capture IHs is to first sort with a zinc accept (they'll be rejected)........

Just tried that with a few of my IHs, and during the zinc accept they were accepted.

Also tried an IH as the comparing coin thinking that IHs would fall on the copper side, but all zincs (and IHs) were accepted and all copper rejected.

[tinhorn]

Arghhhh! Y'mean I might still be losing some?! Since I set the comparitor to full-tight, I've been capturing IHs.

[creshka46]

Arghhhh! Y'mean I might still be losing some?! Since I set the comparitor to full-tight, I've been capturing IHs.

Tinhorn, so you set the comparitor to "full tight" does that mean it's super sensitive? Do you use a zinc accept then? If so, how many zincs are rejected with the coppers?

I'm trying to get to the bottom of this because I'm thinking about buying a ryedale and running a really sensitive zinc accept and then going through the rejects by hand for copper/wheat/foreign, etc. I don't mind if the extra sensitivity means there's more zincs with the coppers because it still cuts my hand sorting down by a ton. If I could even remove just 90% of the zincs with the ryedale, that would cut down my hand sorting time a lot.

So basically I have two questions:

1. If I run a super sensitive zinc accept, what percentage of zincs are rejected?
2. If I run a super sensitive zinc accept, what percentage of indians/old wheats are accepted?

Has anyone run tests with a super sensitive zinc accept? What were the results?

[tinhorn]

Yup, super-sensitive. But I'm luckier than most--I have more than one Ryedale, so the tight-zinc-accept Ryedale dumps directly into a tight-copper-accept Ryedale. Then I hand-sort the final rejects. I haven't calculated percentages, but I have been capturing a few IHs, and lots of wheats. If I had to guess, I'd guess that about half the wheats stay in the copper bin; half get captured in my hand-sort "greed bin".

I don't check my zincs, but I do observe them as I dump. In the past I know I've seen a few IHs and several wheats slide into the banks' coin counters. Since I started dual-sorting, I haven't seen a single IH or wheat mixed in with the zinc. Far from a true test, I know, but I like my setup. (I don't know how a pair of Ryedale Aces would perform in tandem.)

[creshka46]

Tinhorn, thanks for the info. So for example, if you run a $25 box through, how big is the final reject pile that you hand sort, and how much of that is zinc?

[fasteddy]

happen to pick up two bags yesterday so I ran those last night....after running the zinc accept then a copper accept, the rejects from the copper accept was about three handfuls of coin, the contents of this small pile: one silver looking foreign coin, 20 cent euro, 5 Cu memorials, 7 early wheats, and 98 zinc rejects. I have not scanned the zinc pile yet.

creshka46...when you get your Apprentice you will experiment with it to find your happy medium...Go ahead and buy one...you will be glad you did...when I was hand sorting my wheat pile was small....now with machine sorting my wheat pile is much larger.

PULL THE TRIGGER.

[creshka46]

fasteddy, thanks for the info. I'm thinking that maybe I'll buy one with my tax return money, I should have a big chunck coming back to me this year.

[lahmejoon]

Thanks, all. This was very helpful for me as well. I think I'll be placing an order soon. I like the tandem setup, but with the amount that I sort (not a whole lot), I don't think I could justify 2. Of course, with all the rave reviews of the machine, that could all change once I actually get one.

[hags]

Has anyone run tests with a super sensitive zinc accept? What were the results?

I run high sensitive zinc first and also sort thru them individually..... The IHs and early wheats still get accepted even on high sensitive zinc accept...
I compare with an 09' zinc, which I've tested different years and for some reason the 09' zinc I use is best on my machine....out of a bag of 5000 I end up with approx. 3500 accepted coins that only take one trip thru the Ryedale....I've found re-running the zincs with a copper accept is pointless because the high sensitive zinc run is very accurate...I use to run them thru again with a copper accept and occasionally had one or two copper drop that I missed....so to save time and wear and tear I run them only once now....When I'm sorting the zinc accepts I sort the 82' to 08' memorials from the 09s and newer and run the two piles thru my counter to get a percentage for the new pennies in circulation, and how they increase over time, along with the percentage of zinc per bag.....

Of the approx. 1500 rejects from the first run, I run them thru on a high sensitive copper accept and average about 40 zinc rejects in that run, so the approx. 1500 coins from the first run go thru the Ryedale twice...and for each bag of 5000 coins I run approx. 6500 thru my Ryedale....My copper accepts are also sorted thru individually after the 40 or so zincs are removed....

The individual sorting really doesn't take that long....at first it seemed to, but I compare the task to learning to play a new instrument....at first you're slow and tedious, but the more practice you do the quicker and more efficient you become...I randomly check myself for lack of concentration by re-sorting some that I feel I may have sorted without really concentrating on and I find I rarely make a mistake and accidentally push something into the wrong bin.....concentration is key and I find it best to only do so much individual sorting in one sitting....

I'm looking at this a bit more from a collector standpoint than a copper hording standpoint.

I'm in the same boat....I feel the effort it takes to get the coins deserves the max. effort to extract all the potential available....returning something of value in a dump is unacceptable....
I enjoy the treasure hunt more then the speed at which my CU hoard grows, so the time involved to sort is a testament to what it takes to collect and hoard at the same time.....I'd hate to imagine I owned a 14D or 1877 IH and dumped it due to inefficiency.

hags

[creshka46]

Thanks hags. That is what I was looking for.

I think the last question I have for anyone is: What portion of old wheats/indians get rejected in a high sensitive zinc accept. In other words, If I were to run a bunch pennies from 1856-1940, how many of them would be accepted? All of them? Half of them? 1/3 of them?

Does anyone know?

[hags]

Thanks hags. That is what I was looking for.

I think the last question I have for anyone is: What portion of old wheats/indians get rejected in a high sensitive zinc accept. In other words, If I were to run a bunch pennies from 1856-1940, how many of them would be accepted? All of them? Half of them? 1/3 of them?

Does anyone know?

I've tested my Ryedale with a couple hundred IHs and early date wheats using different combos of accept coins and sensitivity....The average was a little better then 2/3 would be rejected and the rest accepted, more so on the IHs then the wheats....My Ryedale is pretty much as everyone reports, early year wheats and the early 40s are accepted and most others are rejected....Once you dial in the Ryedale to either accept or reject all most all the IHs or early wheats, and then run a random pile of coins thru, the accept or reject of unwanted coins was too great....you'd have to back off the sensitivity or use a different compare coin and the results would return to average.
If you're a "time is money" type person then thoroughly searching for accepted wheats and IHs really isn't worth the effort, if you're a treasure hunter then sort thru the zinc and you'll find IHs and 100 year old wheaties...

hags

[tinhorn]

Tinhorn, thanks for the info. So for example, if you run a $25 box through, how big is the final reject pile that you hand sort, and how much of that is zinc?

I haven't emptied the greed bucket for awhile, but I did so tonight. I had about six pounds of coins after the last $800-1000 sorted. I didn't hand-sort them all, but out of the 215 that were on top of the pile, they broke down to:
CDN post '96--67 (31.2%)
Zinc US--19 (8.8%)
CDN pre-'97--43 (20%)
Copper Memorials--25 (11.6%)
Wheats--60 (27.9%)
US dime--1 (0.5%)

Interesting that most of the US zincs were skanky, pitted, or badly corroded.

I also grabbed a roll of IHs and ran them. THREE were accepted by the zinc-accept Ryedale; NONE were accepted by the copper-accept unit. Sheesh, this means I'm STILL losing 6% of my IHs.

[creshka46]

Thanks tinhorn. This is great info. I think between all the responses that I have all my questions answered.