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Thinking about buying as an investment some key date wheat pennies. Which ones would have the best chance to appreciate in value over the years? Seems like the 1909 s vdb would be a no brainer. Or should I just stick to buying gold and silver. I just want to hear some opinions about whether it would be a good investment or not.. Thanks in advance

From a old post of ours we went the other way and traded silver for wheats the thread has more thoughts on silver or key dates see-- http://www.realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2844&hilit=silver

We went to the coin shop and got some hole filler for $25FV silver that I got at 10x. Now Franklin just needs the 1909-S VDB!

My opinion is that numismatics are collectables and silver and gold are commodities.
The price of pennies or any other numismatic is somewhat subjective. Depends on the grading and how bad someone else wants the coin and if you can find that someone when you want to sell it.
The price of silver and gold, while also somewhat subjective is none-the-less, a commodity that trades worldwide and the value is established in a very large market. It also doesn't take much knowledge to determine its value and there are always plenty of buyers.
I would rather have $1000 invested in silver than $1000 invested in several copper cents.
My two cents.

I have struggled with this too. Right now where I am at is I am diversified in numismatics and bullion cu, ni, ag, au.

Hi there-

I think now is a good time to buy numismatics since most people seem to be focused on bullion. Most media is also saying that investors should avoid numismatics...buy when others are fearfullll....

JMO, of course. I think numi coins are cool but it's not my focus currently. After I get more bullion I will probably get into it.

wags

Friend of mine just spent about $400 buying many of the earlier wheats except for a few. He wants to see my wheat collection, it's not all that much, he seems to knows a little more than I do, but I had to help him with the 1922 as it threw him for a loop. I think the advice can be the same collect what you want, fill holes, etc. Costly for higher grades, although I think they have better appreciation potential. Still, I was checking in on this over at another forum myself not to long ago, and some people were talking how the 31s had gone down in value on ebay, seemed like a good indicator because of the lower mintage later date wheat. I think appreciation has grown recently and it may be backing off a little, still, others out here know WAY more about the wheaty market than I ever will, just through experience and time, so give some time for others to comment. I know an MS66 1909S VDB just went for $4400 on ebay the other day, some big store just moved some inventory I guess.

If you are going to try your hand at investing in numismatic coins stay with 100% certified.

The biggest problem with trying to make money on a numismatic investment is not getting burned by the "buy-sell spread". In other words, the reduction in your sell price relative to a dealer sell price.

You can significantly reduce this spread by having certified coins rather than raw.

Naturally, you can buy raw and get them certified and that's a big profit center for people like Rodebaugh that have eagle eyes.

Speaking of "good eyes", if you can grade exceptionally well then "cherry picking upgrades" can also lead to profit even if they are already certified.

Without buying an under-appreciated coin though, you are looking at instantaneous LOSS whenever buying a collectible due to the buy-sell spread.

And, unlike "bullion" or other more "true" investments you can't just sell it tomorrow unless you don't care about getting far far less than the true value out of the coin. That can be a problem, especially if "push comes to shove" and you need cash fast.


Regarding what to buy: The best "investments" are those that have 2 characteristics:
1. In demand
2. Scarce

The S-VDB is always going to be in demand so that's good. However, it's the least scarce "key coin" out there, so there could be a day of reckoning when the prices for the S-VDB take a nose dive simply because anyone that wants one can easily have 10. Do an ebay search and I'm sure there are 50 on there right now! And that's just ebay. There are dozens at every single auction.

For scarcity and demand try really old coins, like 1790's old. Those are always in demand also and far more rare.

If I buy a graded coin, I try to make it silver, as many silver coins have been melted over the years... I figure not many lincolns have been melted (Yet)

adagirl wrote:I have struggled with this too. Right now where I am at is I am diversified in numismatics and bullion cu, ni, ag, au.

If you're looking as an investment diversification is always key. Never put all your eggs in one basket.

Dinero2005 wrote:

adagirl wrote:I have struggled with this too. Right now where I am at is I am diversified in numismatics and bullion cu, ni, ag, au.

If you're looking as an investment diversification is always key. Never put all your eggs in one basket.

Please stop thinking this.

I'm not saying that hedging your "bets" is bad. That's good.

But if you know something then use that knowledge.

There are MANY times when even going "all in" is the right move. And I'm a VERY conservative investor.

barrytrot wrote:
The S-VDB is always going to be in demand so that's good. However, it's the least scarce "key coin" out there, so there could be a day of reckoning when the prices for the S-VDB take a nose dive simply because anyone that wants one can easily have 10. Do an ebay search and I'm sure there are 50 on there right now! And that's just ebay. There are dozens at every single auction.

+1

And there is over two hundred on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sop=16&_sacat=11116&_from=R40&_nkw=1909+s+vdb&_ipg=200&rt=nc

I should and I still want and need a 1909-S VDB to fill Franklin's Album.

Best advice I've found is that be a collector first before an investor. Buy the coins you like because you might be sitting on them for some time.
Before collecting, read, read, read, look at coins, hang out with Market Harmony and/or Doc Rode and learn from them. Books are much cheaper then what you can lose in overpaying for collectable coins.

Another piece of advice related to buying coins:

Coins of the same grade may have wildly different values.

Learning that and knowing when to try to "pay under guide" and when to "pay 10 times guide" can get you some money making deals!

In other words - know your market. If you want to buy S-VDB's for example, check ha.com and ebay.com for REALIZED PRICES. Then look at the coins that went LOW and the ones that went HIGH. Did the low ones have a certain look? Did the high ones? What was common about them, etc.

Hi there-

Another tip- buy the best you can afford. Obviously you don't want to mortgage the house to get a mint VDB, but don't buy a crappy rare date just to fill the hole...best way to make money on numi coins is to find them in circulation

wags

wagsthadog wrote:Hi there-

Another tip- buy the best you can afford. Obviously you don't want to mortgage the house to get a mint VDB, but don't buy a crappy rare date just to fill the hole...best way to make money on numi coins is to find them in circulation

wags

Very true. Junk will always be junk.

could you give an example of how "buy-sell-spread" works with an example?

atticus wrote:could you give an example of how "buy-sell-spread" works with an example?

If you follow the link to APMEX's junk silver page, you'll see their buy price and sell price. The spread is the difference between those two prices.

http://www.apmex.com/Category/17/90_Silver_Generic_Bags.aspx

thanks man, that makes sense

I like this page for spreads
http://www.apmex.com/APMEXTop40/Default.aspx