Realcent.org

The other day I was reading an article about the Canadian penny being abolished, and the article mentioned the zinc lobby defeating legislation to abolish the penny in America each and every time.

So without getting too political, America and its super powerful lobbies and gridlocked Congress will spare our beloved penny, right?

I have not heard too much about it, but I know they are 'smashing' some pennies to get their point across. I have found this while sorting.

Pennies also play a huge role in charity fund raising, so there will be pressure from them to keep the penny.

adagirl wrote:Pennies also play a huge role in charity fund raising, so there will be pressure from them to keep the penny.

Only until they figure out that that asking for nickels would be just as profitable with less work.

Engineer wrote:

adagirl wrote:Pennies also play a huge role in charity fund raising, so there will be pressure from them to keep the penny.

Only until they figure out that that asking for nickels would be just as profitable with less work.

Fundraising sure could get expensive when the nickel gets the boot!

Here's my opinion... not to be construed with either right nor wrong, but only to be taken at face value.

The cent needs to be eliminated from circulation... HOWEVER, in the same breath, I would also say that the Mint needs to keep the cent for coin collectors in their annual mint sets and proof sets. Not only that, I think that by eliminating them from circulation should allow the mint to put the composition back at the 95/5 for these special sets since that's the ONLY way to get them. Call it what you will, but if the Mint only put out cents in special sets, think of the traffic and sales that would generate.

On the subject of the nickel, I would again say that it's time for that to go as well. If all purchases were rounded to the nearest dime, it wouldn't make things that much more expensive or cheaper, but it WOULD allow a lot less minting and could save the US millions of dollars every year. Besides, if you followed suit and did the same thing as mentioned above, it would further the drive for mint sets and special issue coinage.

Think of it like this... If you were to eliminate your emotional attachment to the cent or nickel all together, and did nothing more than look at the situation from a LOGICAL standpoint, would YOU mint a product that costed 2x (or more) to make... just for the sake of having it around?

My2Cents wrote:Think of it like this... If you were to eliminate your emotional attachment to the cent or nickel all together, and did nothing more than look at the situation from a LOGICAL standpoint, would YOU mint a product that costed 2x (or more) to make... just for the sake of having it around?

People always bag on the cost to make pennies...what about all the other coins the mint manufactures at a profit? They more than cover the loss on pennies...

Number21 wrote:

My2Cents wrote:Think of it like this... If you were to eliminate your emotional attachment to the cent or nickel all together, and did nothing more than look at the situation from a LOGICAL standpoint, would YOU mint a product that costed 2x (or more) to make... just for the sake of having it around?

People always bag on the cost to make pennies...what about all the other coins the mint manufactures at a profit? They more than cover the loss on pennies...

So I take it that you want the cent and nickel around because it makes sense to have in circulation... in THIS day and age when you can't buy anything with them? The only reason it's still around is because it's Congressionally mandated. Nevermind the fact that most all change sits in ashtrays in cars, jars sitting on the counter, or flung loose in the household junk drawers.

1) The U.S. would never eliminate both the penny and the nickel at the same time. They would drop the penny first and make a cheaper nickel, yes with different materials they can make a nickel for less than 5 cents.

2) The U.S. Postal Service has been bleeding billions of dollars each year with no fix in sight. That will get more news than losing about $70 million on the penny. That's a drop in the bucket and last year the mint overall was profitable. Although without the dollar coin sales this year they will be much closer to break even, but still not losing billions.

3) Us Americans just reaffirmed in the senate, $20 billion in subsidies to the largest 5 oil companies. With Exxon making $41.1 billion in profit in 2011. We've just shown how little we care about giving billions of dollars away to some of the most profitable companies around, while we will pay the highest gas prices ever at the pump this summer.

Summary: Until we are losing billions of dollars at the mint, don't expect a change in your change anytime soon. Not to mention the complete outcry of people who have never comprehended rounding. If the loses don't start with a "T" for trillion, nobody really cares and that is how much our money has been devalued in our minds.

Excellent post, tuleja

And if John Kerry can lobby for the continuation of the paper dollar, rather than the more cost effective dollar coin...then the zinc folks should have no trouble at all. Btw...Crane Co., which makes the rag paper for all our currency, is conveniently located in Kerry's State of Massachusetts.

Morsecode wrote:Excellent post, tuleja

And if John Kerry can lobby for the continuation of the paper dollar, rather than the more cost effective dollar coin...then the zinc folks should have no trouble at all. Btw...Crane Co., which makes the rag paper for all our currency, is conveniently located in Kerry's State of Massachusetts.

On the same note Gore Family's Ties to Oil Company Magnate Reap Big Rewards, and a Few Problems

On the third page of Vice President Al Gore's most recent financial disclosure report, after routine listings for his salary and the value of his house in Washington and his small farm here, is an unlikely entry -- $20,000 for leasing land for zinc mining.Behind the yearly lease payment, which has earned Mr. Gore about $450,000 since 1974,

Behind the yearly lease payment, which has , is the story of a sweetheart land deal from long ago, and the ties between the vice president and his family and Armand Hammer and his oil company, Occidental Petroleum.

My thoughts
Al Gore = Tennessee
Jarden zinc =Tennessee "they fund the zinc lobby and sell the mint the blanks for cents"

Also see Environmentalist Gore allowed zinc mine - USATODAY.com

tuleja wrote:1) The U.S. would never eliminate both the penny and the nickel at the same time. They would drop the penny first and make a cheaper nickel, yes with different materials they can make a nickel for less than 5 cents.

2) The U.S. Postal Service has been bleeding billions of dollars each year with no fix in sight. That will get more news than losing about $70 million on the penny. That's a drop in the bucket and last year the mint overall was profitable. Although without the dollar coin sales this year they will be much closer to break even, but still not losing billions.

3) Us Americans just reaffirmed in the senate, $20 billion in subsidies to the largest 5 oil companies. With Exxon making $41.1 billion in profit in 2011. We've just shown how little we care about giving billions of dollars away to some of the most profitable companies around, while we will pay the highest gas prices ever at the pump this summer.

Summary: Until we are losing billions of dollars at the mint, don't expect a change in your change anytime soon. Not to mention the complete outcry of people who have never comprehended rounding. If the loses don't start with a "T" for trillion, nobody really cares and that is how much our money has been devalued in our minds.

Totally agree on point 2 ... the only way congress moves on the penny is if they need to grandstand aboout 'eliminating waste' and this is the only place they can go. They don't have the stones to take on the 9-figure problems, but, hey, we fixed that 70m panny problem!!

I am not sure if they will drop the cent here in the US.

1. Zinc lobby
2. The mint will lose a lot of revenue frim minting the penny. The metal value is .0055 that means that there is least $.0045 of wealth created every time that they make one. The "other costs" are just part of a large shell game.

I don't think coin compositions will change until after the election have come and gone. So there is still time

~JobIII

Engineer wrote:

adagirl wrote:Pennies also play a huge role in charity fund raising, so there will be pressure from them to keep the penny.

Only until they figure out that that asking for nickels would be just as profitable with less work.

I don't see as many people freely giving up their nickels for a nickel charity drive. What do others think?

Ted Kenndy always fought for the zinc companies because there are located in his state. Now that he has passed away I beleive they will get defeated.

highroller4321 wrote:Ted Kenndy always fought for the zinc companies because there are located in his state. Now that he has passed away I beleive they will get defeated.

FYI Ted Kennedy fought for Crane & Co. the maker of paper for the $1.00 note and to stop the $1.00 coin. And Crane US is in his state.

Nickel is too high of a denomination.

Anyone who is charitable and remembers 1970, probably remembers that you could buy 40 barrels of oil with a $100 box of (Canadian) nickels.

Copper has never got even close to that.

Nickel is 10x rarer than Copper, Gold is 15.5x rarer than Silver. Its a comparable ratio: Nickel is to copper as gold is to silver.

ZenOps wrote:Nickel is 10x rarer than Copper, Gold is 15.5x rarer than Silver. Its a comparable ratio: Nickel is to copper as gold is to silver.

Not really a comparable ratio because so much silver gets used in industrial applications and is not recovered (like it was when photography was the major industrial use of silver). The amount of above ground gold is much higher than 15,5x the amount of above ground silver.

tuleja wrote:1) The U.S. would never eliminate both the penny and the nickel at the same time. They would drop the penny first and make a cheaper nickel, yes with different materials they can make a nickel for less than 5 cents.

2) The U.S. Postal Service has been bleeding billions of dollars each year with no fix in sight. That will get more news than losing about $70 million on the penny. That's a drop in the bucket and last year the mint overall was profitable. Although without the dollar coin sales this year they will be much closer to break even, but still not losing billions.

3) Us Americans just reaffirmed in the senate, $20 billion in subsidies to the largest 5 oil companies. With Exxon making $41.1 billion in profit in 2011. We've just shown how little we care about giving billions of dollars away to some of the most profitable companies around, while we will pay the highest gas prices ever at the pump this summer.

Summary: Until we are losing billions of dollars at the mint, don't expect a change in your change anytime soon. Not to mention the complete outcry of people who have never comprehended rounding. If the loses don't start with a "T" for trillion, nobody really cares and that is how much our money has been devalued in our minds.

Although I understand we are losing money by minting pennies and nickels, however I'm surprised at the lack of attention being paid to the fact that these increasing costs are due to inflation. The fact that the penny and nickel have little to no value is not merely an incident of nature, but a clear indictment on central banking. This should be used as a teachable moment.

"Us Americans just reaffirmed in the senate, $20 billion in subsidies to the largest 5 oil companies. "

Not sure what you are talking about here. I do not believe companies get direct subsidies from the U.S. government for producing oil the way that Petrobras of Brazil does. They are allowed to write-off capital expenses and depletion just like every other company, but it is disingenuous to characterize them as "subsidies." I suppose they might get money for green energy research (something I disagree with), but there is no way that would reach to 20 billion.

Can you provide a link???

henrysmedford wrote:

highroller4321 wrote:Ted Kenndy always fought for the zinc companies because there are located in his state. Now that he has passed away I beleive they will get defeated.

FYI Ted Kennedy fought for Crane & Co. the maker of paper for the $1.00 note and to stop the $1.00 coin. And Crane US is in his state.

I wasn't sure about the coins in Massachusetts. Jardins is located down south right?

Let's see what happens to coins after the election dust has settled.

Make them out of plastic or cardboard like they did the tax tokens, http://taxtoken.org/catalog.htm

dannan14 wrote:

ZenOps wrote:Nickel is 10x rarer than Copper, Gold is 15.5x rarer than Silver. Its a comparable ratio: Nickel is to copper as gold is to silver.

Not really a comparable ratio because so much silver gets used in industrial applications and is not recovered (like it was when photography was the major industrial use of silver). The amount of above ground gold is much higher than 15,5x the amount of above ground silver.

Nickel was used at a 5% ratio to iron to make stainless steel. For the most part of the last century, stainless steel was thrown away (if you thought silver was thrown away in large amounts, nickel was even more so)

If you melted down all the pure nickels that Canada produced, we could make about 40 or so tanks, or maybe one aircraft carrier. The primary use of nickel is plated armor, which is why the US replaced the 1.25 grams of nickel during WWII with nearly 1.5 grams of silver... Because nickel was in much greater scarcity and worth more than silver gram per gram.

Copper, never ever came close to equivalent value to silver at any point in the last 2,000 years.

The only reason the US still has 25% nickel nickels, is because we are basically giving away our nickel for free in some convoluted trade agreement. Like when we gave you a Billion dollars worth of free softwood lumber.

Zinc has technically never been considered a monetary metal. Its actually deadly, and has killed many a dog that have accidentally swallowed a zinc penny and stomach acids have dissolved the copper coating.