Cashless "Buy and Dump"

[ggg]

I am still new at this but I was thinking... I have never had a problem buying coins at a bank I have an account at, or dumping coins at a bank that I have an account at as long as I deposit the proceeds of the dump into my account there. So, here is my plan. Bank of America and Wells Fargo are linked up together online and you can transfer funds from one account to another account and from Bank of America to Wells Fargo and back and forth and so on and so on. What if I walk into Bank of America and get my coin supply and simply have the teller take it out of my account that's there. Then I dump my coins at Wells Fargo and have the teller deposit the proceeds of the dump into my account there. Then when I get back home, I transfer the funds from Wells Fargo back to Bank of America and repeat the process. I am thinking, and it is only a guess, that it is simpler for the teller to take the amount you owe for your supply coins right out of your account that's there and simpler for the teller to deposit the amount of the dump directly into an account that's there. The teller never has to handle any cash in either transaction. Easier on the teller...easier on you. Plus the bank doesn't feel like they were just dumped on because you are putting those funds into an account. Anybody have any thoughts about this?

[mishra142]

Only problem i see is that you are creating a paper trail. I dunno what kind of volume your looking at but it could potentially lead to suspicious activity problems.

[dannan14]

Only problem i see is that you are creating a paper trail. I dunno what kind of volume your looking at but it could potentially lead to suspicious activity problems.

i've wondered about this myself. For those few of you that search 10s of thousands or more per month how much do you deposit at once? In that position i think i would make sure it is always more than 10k so that a CTR is triggered. That way you can't be accused of structuring.

[PMLurker]

Why not just withdraw the money out of an ATM instead of transferring money between accounts? Perhaps increase your bankroll so you're not churning the same $50 over and over again? Ask your teller what is easier for them to handle, cash on pickup or a withdraw?

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Yep... paper trail = bad.

Always use cash. I never buy and dump at the same bank during the same visit.

[barrytrot]

My question: If this does work, so what? What's the benefit?

[Dinero2005]

Only problem i see is that you are creating a paper trail. I dunno what kind of volume your looking at but it could potentially lead to suspicious activity problems.

i've wondered about this myself. For those few of you that search 10s of thousands or more per month how much do you deposit at once? In that position i think i would make sure it is always more than 10k so that a CTR is triggered. That way you can't be accused of structuring.

I'm not sure of that logic. Seems to me that either situation could raise red flags. For someone moving that kind of cash it would make more sense to have a business account. Sure depending on the financial institution there could be costs involved but why spend all the energy trying to work the system when it's really pretty simple.

As for the OP, ask the tellers what's easier for them. Tellers are more perceptive than you think. I don't see a reason to try to fool the institution into thinking you're doing business there. It is what it is. You're a coin collector and that's what coin collectors do.

[dannan14]

It doesn't matter if it is a business account or not. A CTR is triggered every single time there is a cash transaction of more than $10k. If someone is consistently bringing in a large amount that is somewhat close to $10k but never over then it is highly likely that eventually someone at the bank will file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report). SARs can (but not always) lead to investigation by the IRS. If is determined that the reason for multiple deposits is to avoid a CTR, then that person will likely be prosecuted for structuring.

[Dinero2005]

It doesn't matter if it is a business account or not. A CTR is triggered every single time there is a cash transaction of more than $10k. If someone is consistently bringing in a large amount that is somewhat close to $10k but never over then it is highly likely that eventually someone at the bank will file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report). SARs can (but not always) lead to investigation by the IRS. If is determined that the reason for multiple deposits is to avoid a CTR, then that person will likely be prosecuted for structuring.

I agree with the second part. Multiple deposits or withdrawals of just under $10k will look very suspicious and should trigger a SAR. Structuring is exactly what is being done in that case as is illegal. Having a business account doesn't change the legality of structuring but is a lot less suspicious. It's not hard to explain a coin business depositing or withdrawing $10k in cash. CTR won't be a problem. Convenience stores and restaurants deal with this kind of cash all the time. No big deal.

If the concern is paying taxes, it's not hard to report if there's no profit. If there is it should be reported anyway. Otherwise it's tax evasion.

[frugalcanuck]

I always use cash... I feel cash is easier and you have less paper trail.

I think one $100 bill per box of nickles is pretty simple and easy to understand.

[mtldealer]

I have what may amount to a really silly question...
I opened a business account a while ago and was dumping my coins in bags. I was also ordering boxes of Halfs, that I would take the cash out to pay for - deposit at chase, take the cash out a couple days later and pick up boxes from wells Fargo. I'm at a point where I am depositing 4K on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I'm withdrawing 2K twice a week. At this point everyone at all the banks I deal with know that I am looking for silver. When I withdraw the 2k I tell them it is for potential banks... To make "spot buys." does this plan sound really flawed? I once witnessed a friend have double with structuring... Not something anyone wants to have happen. At this point my friend waits till he has well in excess of 10k, deposits it and basically expects the deposit to be flagged. He thinks he's beating them to the punch. All I'm trying to do is legitimate business.
I remember before 9-11, I frequented Vegas a lot. People would pay each other with casino chips... ie, friend borrowed money for poker tourney paid me back in 1k bellagio chips. Never had a problem. I know guys who had "lots" of money sitting in casino cage safety deposit boxes. After 9-11, the casino's started tracking the big chips, big time. Now if you walk into a casino and try to cash a large chip expect them to ask you where you received the chip, which table. Dealers are always asking you when you leave the table to color you up. That is their way of keeping track of things. They already do it by handing you a member card and tell you to stick it in a slot so they'll give you freebies. A friend of mine who is a host at a large casino showed me that from the time you walk in, between electronic keys and chips... They can follow you at any moment.
Sorry about the rant... Got carried away.

[dannan14]

Here is an example of the Feds abusing structuring laws. http://offgridsurvival.com/governmentat ... nkaccount/