How worthless can a coin be and still circulate?

[scyther]

http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16287938,00.html

Apparently in India they're melting down steel- yes, steel- coins illegally at a profit. Isn't steel like... really, really cheap? I can see this happening even with zinc, but for an iron coin to be worth more as metal than money, the monetary value must be essentially zero, right? What could you buy with such a coin? Why do they even exist? I really don't get it...

[Morsecode]

http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16287938,00.html
...the monetary value must be essentially zero, right? What could you buy with such a coin? Why do they even exist? I really don't get it...

You just described our dollar

Maybe you guys should re-think zinc dumping

[tuleja]

You need to read the whole article, "One Indian one-rupee coin can be melted down to make four or five razor blades worth four to five takas [around 4 or 5 euro cents] each."
An Indian one-rupee coin must be worth something less than 4 euro cents in India (approximate equivalent of a nickel in the U.S.) for them to transport and melt them down to make a 4 to 5 cent euro equivalent product. Take that into perspective as we discuss 1 US cents with a melt value of a little more than 2 US cents, I would say the one-rupee coin is probably worth more in India than our 1 cent coin and we still use our 1 cent coins in circulation.

India has eliminated many coins from their circulation due to inflation making them worthless. I have a 25 Paise coin I have gotten in a penny roll or penny bag that is no longer circulating that was worth 1/4 of one-rupee.

[ZenOps]

Nah, already ran the numbers on zincers.

Copper has been as high as $4.50 a pound and even so - there has not really been a run on pennies.

Since a zinc penny weighs 20% less than copper penny, and factoring in zinc being about 92 cents per pound, Zinc would have to appreciate by 600% in price to catch up to a copper penny that is still circulating (and even so, very unlikely to be hoarded at that price, just like copper pennies)

I would consider 6x face value before coins start to seriously be hoarded, and usually by then its too late. The Canadian nickel came very close at 4.6x face, but even so - did not cause panic buying at all. The US copper penny has been as high as 3x face.

A guy in india will do anything for a few cents which is admirable, IMO. But in North america, its got to be a 500% profit before we will even think about it. Unless of course - there is some sort of economic disaster.

The common mantra in North America is to simply live beyond your means, try to get six-digit $ into debt, and then declare bankruptcy. Donald Trump style.

BUT: If you can get your hands on some 11-sided two Rupee (non-magnetic) they actually have a better cupronickel ratio than US nickels.

[scyther]

Okay, so apparently they're not as worthless as I thought. But why is that? If steel is so cheap, why are they worth 4 cents each?

Does anyone know where I can find the price for steel (or iron)? Kitco doesn't seem to have it. I was under the impression that it was priced by the ton and significantly cheaper than zinc.

[chris6084]

http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16287938,00.html

Apparently in India they're melting down steel- yes, steel- coins illegally at a profit. Isn't steel like... really, really cheap? I can see this happening even with zinc, but for an iron coin to be worth more as metal than money, the monetary value must be essentially zero, right? What could you buy with such a coin? Why do they even exist? I really don't get it...

Isn't a penny essentially worth zero? What can you buy with a penny? You can illegally melt them to at a profit if you chose to do so.

[everything]

Friend of mine, when he goes to China with his Chinese wife, when they get coin change from a transaction they just drop it on the ground.

[ZenOps]

Okay, so apparently they're not as worthless as I thought. But why is that? If steel is so cheap, why are they worth 4 cents each?

Does anyone know where I can find the price for steel (or iron)? Kitco doesn't seem to have it. I was under the impression that it was priced by the ton and significantly cheaper than zinc.

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/? ... months=360

Iron has been anywhere between $13 and $100 per ton or so in the last decade. Steel, and any metal is of extra value because it can be turned into real useable goods like razor blades. A ton of razor blades is most definitely not $13, and yet - it takes little to no extra effort to stamp out a steel razor blade as compared to a steel round coin.

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/? ... months=360
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/? ... months=360

Zinc is usually around $2,000 per ton, Nickel has been as high as $52,000 per ton (although if you ask me, Nickel is still massively undervalued) While the nickel metal itself might be worth $1.60 per ounce, in armor plating form - it is worth far more. During WWII, nickel armor was without doubt worth more than silver per ounce. And if you ask me, If WWIII will be a nuclear war - Tungsten (as a radiation reflector) will be worth more than platinum.

[shinnosuke]

Okay, so apparently they're not as worthless as I thought. But why is that? If steel is so cheap, why are they worth 4 cents each?

Does anyone know where I can find the price for steel (or iron)? Kitco doesn't seem to have it. I was under the impression that it was priced by the ton and significantly cheaper than zinc.

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/? ... months=360

Iron has been anywhere between $13 and $100 per ton or so in the last decade. Steel, and any metal is of extra value because it can be turned into real useable goods like razor blades. A ton of razor blades is most definitely not $13, and yet - it takes little to no extra effort to stamp out a steel razor blade as compared to a steel round coin.

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/? ... months=360
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/? ... months=360

Zinc is usually around $2,000 per ton, Nickel has been as high as $52,000 per ton (although if you ask me, Nickel is still massively undervalued) While the nickel metal itself might be worth $1.60 per ounce, in armor plating form - it is worth far more. During WWII, nickel armor was without doubt worth more than silver per ounce. And if you ask me, If WWIII will be a nuclear war - Tungsten (as a radiation reflector) will be worth more than platinum.

ZenOps, thank you for the excellent info and analysis. And please post more often.

[Morsecode]

Yeah, that's good stuff. Good analysis.

[fansubs_ca]

Maybe the coins are Stainless Steel which in some alloys can have quite a
bit of nickel in it. I suspect some details are missing from that story.

Hey! Post #200!

[scyther]

Okay, so apparently they're not as worthless as I thought. But why is that? If steel is so cheap, why are they worth 4 cents each?

Does anyone know where I can find the price for steel (or iron)? Kitco doesn't seem to have it. I was under the impression that it was priced by the ton and significantly cheaper than zinc.

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/? ... months=360

Iron has been anywhere between $13 and $100 per ton or so in the last decade. Steel, and any metal is of extra value because it can be turned into real useable goods like razor blades. A ton of razor blades is most definitely not $13, and yet - it takes little to no extra effort to stamp out a steel razor blade as compared to a steel round coin.

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/? ... months=360
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/? ... months=360

Zinc is usually around $2,000 per ton, Nickel has been as high as $52,000 per ton (although if you ask me, Nickel is still massively undervalued) While the nickel metal itself might be worth $1.60 per ounce, in armor plating form - it is worth far more. During WWII, nickel armor was without doubt worth more than silver per ounce. And if you ask me, If WWIII will be a nuclear war - Tungsten (as a radiation reflector) will be worth more than platinum.

That price is for iron ore, not pure iron. I'm guessing the ore would have only a small percent metal, but I don't really know. I see how steel could be a lot more useful than iron, but if it's made mostly of iron, it seems like the price should be a lot lower regardless of it's uses.

[penny pretty]

Its a "tale of two cultures" So, in the poorer culture, you can make a profit turning metal coins into razorblades. good for the "entrepreneur". In our "rich" culture, when razorblades are so cheap even inmates can get them,( I know, I saw prison shows on the TV) the ELITES hoard coins due to the content of copper! It feels nice being elite!(I wonder how close a shave I can get with a copper blade)