¢ Hoarding Zincolns? ¢

[zKott]

I must start off by stating that this is my first post. I am a newbie to this forum.

I am relatively new to this copper / Nickel sport as well. I began this journey interested mainly in Silver but recently have become more drawn to and attracted to Copper and Nickel. I am up to about 70 unopened boxes of Nickels and about 400 lbs of copper pennies. (50 of which are wheaties)

My short term goal is 100 boxes of Nickels and 1000lbs of pennies. Should be accomplished in the next few months.

Anyway, to make a long story short, my wife works at the bank so it is quite easy to get my unopened boxes of Nickels and Pennies each week.

Last week, she managed to bring home two boxes of 2013 BU Shield Pennies.

At first I was disappointed at the thought that there is absolutely no copper in these boxes. But then I got to thinking, when they quit making pennies, what kind of a Numi value will the Zincolns have after it is all said and done. (Especially two full boxes of untouched BU zincers!)

I realize that there is no metal value of these boxes, so it would all be based on numi value. But what do you guys think about BU Zincers?

Would you stack boxes of BU's or would you take them back to the bank?

Do you think that average circulation zincers will be worth numi value after there are no more and the U.S. turns into Australia, New Zealand and Canada?
...or do you think it would take a hundred years and even then a zincoln would only be worth an insignificant value, exacerbated by years of inflation etc etc ...?

[creshka46]

My advice would be to put the 2013's up on ebay and see if anyone takes them. If they don't sell then return them.
Brand new current year pennies tend to sell for a good premium early on in the year but them die off and there's not much demand for them. So sell them while you can and then dump them.

As for future value, I think it will take a looooong time to gain any numi value, even if they stop making the penny today. There have been nearly 300 Billion zinc pennies minted since 1982, they will never be rare. In fact, I think they will gain melt value above face value due to rising zinc prices sooner than they will gain numi value.

If the penny is still around in 15-20 years, I wouldn't be suprised if we are all using our ryedales to sort and hoard zinc and dumping steel pennies!

That's just my 2 cents

P.S.- Welcome to the forum!

[zKott]

cresh,

I thought about posting them on eBay, as I have seen another guy that listed 2 boxes and sold them for $130, three different times! (insanity)

I realize there have been nearly 300 Billion zinc pennies minted since 1982 BUT when Canada discontinued their pennies, all banks shipped back their pennies to the Royal Mint to have them melted down for industrial purposes.

Don't you think that if the US does away with pennies, the Mint would collect them and melt them down as well to remove them from circulation? If so, subsequently there would no longer be even remotely close to 300 Billion pennies available, which could make them extremely rare and full of numi value.

As such, the government assumes that the average American has only a couple of pocket fulls of pennies at any given time. As you and I probably know, most people would probably be dumb enough to rush out and drop their pennies at CoinStar or at their local bank or at the register of their next merchant the instant that the government announces that pennies have been cut from currency and will no longer be manufactured.

I think pennies could be extremely rare under these circumstances. What do you think?

[wheeler_dealer]

Welcome aboard. You should throw them on E bay. Turn them quick. Have your wife keep ordering as you can probably get more. Once the demand dies down you should be able to reacquire cheaper if you still want them.

[hobo finds]

Several years ago, not sure when but zincs were worth more than .01 each melt value! I am sure someone here knows when that was.

I just looked on Coinflation http://www.coinflation.com/ and noticed that nickels were less than melt now. Metal prices are falling fast...

[zKott]

According to Coininflation "$0.0051014 is the melt value for the 1982-2013 zinc cent on June 06, 2013."

[hobo finds]

I think it was in 2006 that the melt value was higher than face for them...

[hobo finds]

Also when we go back to steel cents or even plastic not much melt value for them.

http://currencydebasement.com/legal-tender&c=USD

[scyther]

I seriously hope they never do something as stupid as make a coin out of plastic. If you can't use any real metals, just stop making it...

[scyther]

Several years ago, not sure when but zincs were worth more than .01 each melt value! I am sure someone here knows when that was.

I just looked on Coinflation http://www.coinflation.com/ and noticed that nickels were less than melt now. Metal prices are falling fast...

They have been for quite a while. As long as the penny doesn't go under 2x face, I'm not worried... but I want prices to go HIGHER!

[zKott]

Guys, you don't seem to believe the possibility of the mint melting these bastards down and removing them from circulation.

Effective February 4th, 2013 the Canadian Royal Mint ceased distribution of their penny and subsequently will no longer produce such a denomination. When you go to the store and your total equals $1.01 or $1.02 they will round the transaction down to $1.00. If your total equals $1.03 or $1.04 they will round the transaction up to $1.05. Using this method effectively eliminates the requirement of a "penny" denomination in the general circulation since nickels are the dividing factor.
This is also the case is Austrialia and New Zealand. This is happening right now in real time, as we speak. This is not a fairy tale. Is this fact not generally well known around here?

I agree with scyther, "Just stop making them" and that is exactly what they will do. Why wouldn't they? Has anybody else seen what legislation Obama is capable of passing? I highly doubt that we have any more than two years before we no longer have a penny...

Nickels will remain in circulation and will be made of a stainless steel composition going forward beginning most likely in 2014. Dimes, quarters, halves and dollars are already well below FV in comparison to their cost of manufacture. So nothing needs to be done with those for the time being. However, evidently the powers the be are pushing to make all us coinage out of US steel, based mainly out of Ohio.

This adds to my OP but stating that prehaps the worthless dime, quarter, halve and dollar could retain some kind of numi value after this happens - but who knows...

My best advice for all you stock market junkies - buy up stocks in Ohio based steel companies this year, you will surely stand to make a fortune in five years

[scyther]

Guys, you don't seem to believe the possibility of the mint melting these bastards down and removing them from circulation.

Effective February 4th, 2013 the Canadian Royal Mint ceased distribution of their penny and subsequently will no longer produce such a denomination. When you go to the store and your total equals $1.01 or $1.02 they will round the transaction down to $1.00. If your total equals $1.03 or $1.04 they will round the transaction up to $1.05. Using this method effectively eliminates the requirement of a "penny" denomination in the general circulation since nickels are the dividing factor.
This is also the case is Austrialia and New Zealand. This is happening right now in real time, as we speak. This is not a fairy tale. Is this fact not generally well known around here?

Of course it is. We have a thread about it with a lot of posts. But the US isn't like other countries. No country is quite like any other, and here especially I think people put more value on the tradition of having a penny than they do elsewhere. Our government doesn't have a problem wasting a ton of money on stupid stuff, and while there is real money to be saved by ending the penny, it's miniscule relative to the debt or budget. It doesn't matter in the long run. And even if Americans aren't necessarily more inclined to keep a useless coin, why should it need to happen so soon? Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Norway, and other countries got rid of their smallest denominations years ago, but Canada waited until last year. The pound, Euro, Yen, and who knows how many other currencies have the rough equivalent of a US cent. Why should it happen here next, and why by next year?

When you first hear about the issue, it may seem like it will happen in the very near future. I mean, it's common sense, right? But the world doesn't always operate on common sense, and people have been saying it's time to get rid of the penny for literally decades. It could happen any time, but my guess is the penny will still be here in another 10 years.

[Z00]

but my guess is the penny will still be here in another 10 years.

It may well be here, but not in it's current form.

The metal value of zinc content has approached and even surpassed the FV once before. It seems to me that the possibility that it will again is very real.

NO COIN leaves this house.

[scyther]

but my guess is the penny will still be here in another 10 years.

It may well be here, but not in it's current form.

The metal value of zinc content has approached and even surpassed the FV once before. It seems to me that the possibility that it will again is very real.

NO COIN leaves this house.

They may change composition, although supposedly it wouldn't save any money. I wouldn't assume that because the value briefly went over face value, it will change composition anytime soon. The nickel has consistently been somewhere around face value for years now, at times well above, and they still haven't changed that. With the zinc penny around 50% of face, I think they can keep making them that way for a long time.

[hobo finds]

I agree most coins do not leave my house. I do think the zincs could have numi value only problem is they don't hold up that well. It would be neat to have a roll or two of each year for numi value of nice ones!

[Z00]

If you REALLY want to preserve some for any future value (either metal or numi) do the following:

Sort out by year and mintmark - get a roll of each - seal the rolls in a mylar bag with an O2 absorber (this will stop oxidation of either copper or zinc) - stick the bag in a box and forget it for 10 years,

This assumes that you are much younger than my crotchety 70 or that you are doing it for your kids/grandkids.

[hobo finds]

Get rid of the dollar bill first!

http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post ... ab26d10d9c

[zKott]

Z00, I think I like your philosophy, "No Coin Leaves This House".

...and I've been up in the air pondering whether or not I want to dump current year pocket quarters, dimes and pennies. You might be on to something...

Also, I think we should trademark the acronym "NCLTH"

[zKott]

Z00, I think I like your philosophy, "No Coin Leaves This House".

...and I've been up in the air pondering whether or not I want to dump current year pocket quarters, dimes and pennies. You might be on to something...

Also, I think we should trademark the acronym "NCLTH"

Or better yet... we should "Coin" the term, "NCLTH"

[TwoAndAHalfCents]

The question in the OP about whether or not to keep boxes of BU zinc cents is an interesting one. I don't have a good answer - only more questions. Aren't there enough boxes of these coins already being hoarded? I have seen a lot of them sold on eBay. Is that more than enough to satisfy demand for these coins in the future? I don't really know. What will the demand be like in the future for rolls of BU coins from 2013? Will there be far fewer coin collectors in the future and therefor far fewer people down the road that have an interest in adding any of these coins to their collections?

Maybe I can forget for a moment the arguments for the future value of the zinc content of these boxes of BU coins. Maybe I can forget for a moment the arguments for the utility provided by physical metallic coins in a future in which the economy has collapsed. But I keep asking myself "Who in the next generation or the generation after that will be buying up all of these BU 2013 cents to add to their collections?"

[zKott]

...

[Mutation]

I think at some point ALL coins will be worth more than face, since they wont be used!! There are already articles discussing the death of the physical cash used today....get em and hold em!!

[zKott]

The question in the OP about whether or not to keep boxes of BU zinc cents is an interesting one. I don't have a good answer - only more questions. Aren't there enough boxes of these coins already being hoarded? I have seen a lot of them sold on eBay. Is that more than enough to satisfy demand for these coins in the future? I don't really know. What will the demand be like in the future for rolls of BU coins from 2013? Will there be far fewer coin collectors in the future and therefor far fewer people down the road that have an interest in adding any of these coins to their collections?

Maybe I can forget for a moment the arguments for the future value of the zinc content of these boxes of BU coins. Maybe I can forget for a moment the arguments for the utility provided by physical metallic coins in a future in which the economy has collapsed. But I keep asking myself "Who in the next generation or the generation after that will be buying up all of these BU 2013 cents to add to their collections?"

TwoAndAHalfCents, I appreciate your two cents, as truly, you are the first person to actually attempt to respond to the OP. - I see both sides of your angle and I have considered such. You obviously know that I am not in this to hoard Zincs hoping for instant gratification. So, if zincolns work out, it will be far in the future (long term investment). I'm truly not considering this as a basis of long term zinc values, but rather numi value once all penny cents are recalled and melted down.

Thank you for you response, and as such, you have simply further made me want stack my BUs for the "current" for-see-able future.

[Ecotic]

If you don't have any luck hocking them on eBay then I would suggest never hoard zincolns. The opportunity cost is just too high of worthless zincolns sitting in a closet. Your money could be making money elsewhere, and at a far faster pace than hoping they'll be worth something in the future.

[scyther]

Will there be far fewer coin collectors in the future and therefor far fewer people down the road that have an interest in adding any of these coins to their collections?

Unfortunately, yes, I think so. Coin collecting is mostly an old white man's game. Old people are dying (always) and I'm not sure they're being replaced. Racial demographics are changing, and not in a way that supports coin values. I hope that doesn't came off as racist, and I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a large majority of coin collectors are white. Both of my local coin shops are run by older white men, and the people I see in the shops tend to be the same. I've heard anecdotally on other forums (from people who come into contact with a lot more coin collectors than I do) that this is the case for them as well. Even if we ignore that issue, I'm not sure younger generations are really picking up coin collecting like they used to. They have other hobbies, like video games and stuff. Just seeing how many older people there are here is evidence of that. Internet forums tend to be populated by the young. It's only on coin forums that there are a lot of people in their 60s and 70s. And if we do go to a cash society in the future, that will be even worse. The reason there are so many coin collectors is because coins are something everyone comes into contact with in their daily lives, and coins are very collectible. If people stop seeing coins on a regular basis, only antiquarians will collect them. The rarest coins will always be worth money, but no, I don't think there will be much of a market for your 2013 cents.