APMEX Now Carries Copper!

[Copper Catcher]

http://www.apmex.com/category/40001/new ... egory90041

[Morsecode]

I suppose it's a start, validating a market and what-not. Still...hard to get excited about copper at $16+ per pound.

The coins are cool looking, and some will collect them for that reason. But if they wanted to get serious about cu...where are the 50lb, 100lb ingots?

[Rosco]

I was able to hold a 70# 8 oz shipwreck Silver bar from 1864, at the Tucson Gem & Mineral show last week.

Also did a meet a member in Tucson,

Hi cwgii, hope we can do it again next year Rosco

[Recyclersteve]

I suppose it's a start, validating a market and what-not. Still...hard to get excited about copper at $16+ per pound.

The coins are cool looking, and some will collect them for that reason. But if they wanted to get serious about cu...where are the 50lb, 100lb ingots?

These prices remind me of the Home Shopping Network and some of those full page ads in the paper that have ridiculous prices. How in the world can they, in good conscience say one ounce is "ONLY" 99 cents. Plus shipping and handling, of course. And they have the stones to say that if you buy 500 or more there is no discount. They ought to be ashamed of themselves!

For those who would argue that production cost are high and that they've got a business to run, I agree. But if they can't offer true value (real value, not some imaginary so-called collector value), then they shouldn't be trying to sell these. I know- caveat emptor. Emptor schmemptor!

[Morsecode]

I'd be a buyer of 50lb bars at $175 per + shipping. I believe that's a generous 30% mark-up over spot, or thereabouts.

[natsb88]

I'd be a buyer of 50lb bars at $175 per + shipping. I believe that's a generous 30% mark-up over spot, or thereabouts.

Unless you are a scrap yard with a steady supply of very clean wire bought from the public under spot, have a lower-than-market source of energy for a furnace, manage to get killer deals on all of your molds, stamps, equipment for secondary operations, and have skilled employees you can trust to properly use your expensive equipment, handle 2000+ degree molten copper, and not hurt themselves, all while working for peanuts, you would not be in business very long at $175.

[natsb88]

I suppose it's a start, validating a market and what-not. Still...hard to get excited about copper at $16+ per pound.

The coins are cool looking, and some will collect them for that reason. But if they wanted to get serious about cu...where are the 50lb, 100lb ingots?

These prices remind me of the Home Shopping Network and some of those full page ads in the paper that have ridiculous prices. How in the world can they, in good conscience say one ounce is "ONLY" 99 cents. Plus shipping and handling, of course. And they have the stones to say that if you buy 500 or more there is no discount. They ought to be ashamed of themselves!

For those who would argue that production cost are high and that they've got a business to run, I agree. But if they can't offer true value (real value, not some imaginary so-called collector value), then they shouldn't be trying to sell these. I know- caveat emptor. Emptor schmemptor!

I used to get annoyed when people sent me ranting emails (not unlike your post) demanding I sell them fancy .999 fine copper bullion for 10% over spot "because that's how it works with silver." There are numerous examples on this forum where I responded to such statements with examples of the processes and costs involved and demonstrated the impossibility of their wishes. Some can do math and understand, others ignore reality and lash out at how greedy I am and how copper sellers are getting rich by charging so much over spot. Instead of continuing to be annoyed, I started challenging them to start their own company, undercut all the rest of us, and get rich themselves. So far nobody has done it

People gladly fork out $2 - $3 over the spot price of silver for a shiny new one ounce silver round. But offer them a copper round for $1 total (not $1 over the metal value, just $1 total) and they throw an absolute hissy fit, ignoring the fact that in many ways copper is actually more difficult and expensive to process than silver.

I don't market copper bullion as a get-rich investment, and it does irk me when other sellers promote it that way. Even so it's still a far cry from selling plated buffalo replica coins on TV for $20 a pop. It's not pretending to be anything other than a pretty piece of .999 copper.

"If they can't offer true value (real value, not some imaginary so-called collector value), then they shouldn't be trying to sell these" doesn't make any sense. Is the "true value" of a $400 iPhone the $10 in materials it takes to build one? Or is value added because of the effort put into manipulating those materials and the resulting end product, which is more useful than just a pile of raw material? How about diamonds? If you are in the right place geographically, you can literally find them laying on the ground. But they aren't worth anything until somebody with the tools and knowledge turns them into something appealing. You ever order aluminum barstock? It sure is a lot more expensive than what you get for recycling soda cans. Should they be ashamed for making and selling it because it costs more than the spot price of aluminum? Value is determined by buyers and sellers making voluntary exchanges. Saying a company shouldn't make and sell something because you personally don't value it as highly as another person is kinda like saying you either expect companies to sell you things for less than market value or to close up shop

Copper bars and rounds are what they are, and it's a free market. Different people have different reasons for buying. If you don't like it, don't buy it . I, for one, don't see any value in fancy serial numbers on paper currency. That certainly doesn't mean I'll tell somebody they should be ashamed for trying to sell them for more than face value

[AGgressive Metal]

Here is the TLDR version of Nate's post

People gladly fork out $2 - $3 over the spot price of silver for a shiny new one ounce silver round. But offer them a copper round for $1 total (not $1 over the metal value, just $1 total) and they throw an absolute hissy fit, ignoring the fact that in many ways copper is actually more difficult and expensive to process than silver.

[Morsecode]

Sure, and that's sort of the whole point. No one can produce and sell a 1 oz copper coin for a price that makes sense to a metal stacker. The coins and bars are interesting in and of themselves, and will be bought in small quantities for the uniqueness factor...but it would be completely ridiculous to purchase 1000lbs of them. The serious copper stacker still has no viable supply.

A small manufacturer has to get what they get to make it worthwhile. The large suppliers selling tons to copper pipe makers aren't going to sell 200lbs to Joe Copper...there's no middle market that I can see. Apmex is only fulfilling a novelty niche, same as buying silver by the gram.

[Pachucko]

I'd be a buyer of 50lb bars at $175 per + shipping. I believe that's a generous 30% mark-up over spot, or thereabouts.

A small manufacturer has to get what they get to make it worthwhile. The large suppliers selling tons to copper pipe makers aren't going to sell 200lbs to Joe Copper...there's no middle market that I can see. Apmex is only fulfilling a novelty niche, same as buying silver by the gram.

So other than lead, is there a big-a$$ bar of any metal a "regular guy" can buy?

[Recyclersteve]

Nate: I have to give you credit for posting a responsible opposing viewpoint.

I guess it is somewhat like the stock market where one person might like a certain stock and another thinks it is overvalued. So one person buys the stock and the other shorts it. And they could both potentially make money on their trades.

[JadeDragon]

Where can you buy anything pretty and shiny for a buck? Less than a candy bar price.

[Morsecode]

We're talking about Apmex here...if they want to sell copper they should get serious about it and leave the over-priced trinkets to ebay.

I would find it hard to believe a company of their size couldn't source investment worthy bars, if they wanted to.

[dannan14]

We're talking about Apmex here...if they want to sell copper they should get serious about it and leave the over-priced trinkets to ebay.

I would find it hard to believe a company of their size couldn't source investment worthy bars, if they wanted to.

Maybe they're simply in the process of testing the waters of investment demand for copper. i don't know much about their business model, but maybe the investment necessary to add large copper ingots is large enough to necessitate taking it step-by-step.

[Pachucko]

I'd be a buyer of 50lb bars at $175 per + shipping. I believe that's a generous 30% mark-up over spot, or thereabouts.

A small manufacturer has to get what they get to make it worthwhile. The large suppliers selling tons to copper pipe makers aren't going to sell 200lbs to Joe Copper...there's no middle market that I can see. Apmex is only fulfilling a novelty niche, same as buying silver by the gram.

So other than lead, is there a big-a$$ bar of any metal a "regular guy" can buy?

?

[Morsecode]

Is there? I don't know...if there are suppliers I'd like to hear from someone who has bought big copper.

I have seen what are advertised as nickel rods, but I never followed up on the particulars.

[AGgressive Metal]

There are probably several operations out there who could fabricate larger products for investment, but why would they sell a few bars at a time for a tiny mark-up to stackers when they can sell large custom orders at a big mark-up to actual end-users of the materials? Put yourself in the shoes of a machine shop owner and the economics of it are pretty easy. To sell for a tiny bullion margin makes no sense when you have the ability to make highly specialized (read, lots of value added) products. Labor and equipment in that field are not cheap, either.

Hence why this forum really exists - pre-82 pennies and the Canadian/British equivalents are really the only option right now for physical copper short of taking a COMEX warehouse delivery.