I spent three hours with the King of Copper (HCBTT)
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:55 amHey all! Well, I had the good fortune of meeting the King of Copper (Chuck) several weeks ago, but today was different, since we were both at a coin show and also in his local area. In addition to being a member of the local coin clubs for at least twenty years, he also knew everyone and everyone knew him. I didn't realize just how much everyone knew him until today.
First, we chatted about the silver/copper markets, the going rates for buy/sell etc, how to be as efficient as possible with your sorting time, Ryedale stuff, when to hold/not hold capital/funds etc. We were standing in an area where I happened to notice a guy selling a boatload of silver commemorative coins to the local high-end middleman (you know the one...the guy that has the suitcases full of cash/PMs and the one that everybody goes to when they want to sell/buy something). Sometimes, they call him the market maker. Others call him the answer man.
Curiosity was killing me because this guy was quickly and efficiently taking about 30 silver BU commemorative coins out of their large keepsake boxes and laying out his stack to be sold. Chuck goes over and says, 'Hey, do you mind if I keep the empty boxes?' He says sure, as long as the middleman doesn't want them. Of course, the middleman knows Chuck very well and says, 'Keep them' . And so, Chuck gives a big smile as he starts filling up his canvas bag (with handles). 'Chuck, you mean you hoard empty boxes too?' Sure, he says. After all, people will end up wanting them after they obtain their case-less 1oz commemorative and I can sell (or re-sell) it to them for a dollar, he says gleefully.
Maybe we should change his name to HBBTT (Hoard boxes by the ton). Better still, how about 'HEBTT' Hoard everything by the ton?
Anyway, the same guy then sells a beautiful complete 35-piece BU set of Franklins on a single plaque (all years and mints) to the middleman. I'm already frothing at the mouth when looking at it. So Chuck asks him if he could keep the plaque after the middleman removes all the Franklins. Sure, no problem! But this time, he talks to the middleman (let's call him John) and says, "hey John, how much for the set if I pay you cash right now? And make sure you make a bit of profit for yourself too while you're at it. After all, you paid for the table as well. " John runs the calculator and gives Chuck a dollar amount. Chuck gives him the cash (without even thinking about the amount he paid) and there you have it...a complete set of BU Franklins for under spot, including a free marble-style plaque plus two/three higher-value coins for under spot price as well. Heck, John didn't even get to touch them or have to ship them out to another dealer/buyer the next day! The whole thing took one minute. DAMN. Anyway, everyone wins (the seller, John the middleman, Chuck the hoarder).
Afterward, we're sitting and talking and I run the math on the Franklins...yup, under spot price. NICE. So we start talking about capital and how you can't make any money unless you do large volume and you don't hold onto your stuff...in other words, get it in, get it out. Then this guy who recognizes Chuck comes over and says, "Hey Chuck! I've got a customer who has a boatload of pennies over at this other dealer's table and it's too much for the small dealer to handle. You want them, or are you done for the day? " Chuck says, 'Sure, I have time; I'll take them; where's the seller?' We head on over and listen in; the wife has convinced her husband to dump his penny hoard so that he can spend more time with her (of course). The guy is actually very organized and has all of his stuff neatly written down on four pages. I listen in, keep my mouth shut (after all, it's business) and watch. Chuck looks at the guy's paperwork for a couple minutes, asks a couple of questions and then makes an offer, based on regular coppers (59-82) and Wheats. He agreed and we all head out to the guy's car. Chuck also explained to them that he does this stuff by the ton and the husband/wife laughed.
We check out the guy's trunk. He has six heavy cases of stuff with almost all rolls broken down by tubes and labeled. There were over 200 tubes with Wheats (earliest is 1942), plus almost 500 rolls of Coppers. Oh, and don't forget the thirty (30) empty free Whitman folders that go along with the deal, plus even an already filled 1941-63 Whitman folder. Great, says Chuck, I can give the folders to some kids that I know and get them started on coins. The wife looks on while Chuck does his magic and starts calculating and putting all the full tubes in one area and partial tubes in another area. I offer up my cellphone calculator for the final numbers, but first, I help out with the partials and we fill several to capacity. I'm secretly frothing at the mouth as I see that 1955-S BU roll, a 1970-S roll (will there be a small date in this roll?) and BU steel pennies tube. I estimate that the guy has probably been at this for 5-10 years and ask him how long he's had his collection; about ten years, he replied. Good guess! I feel like patting myself on the back. We get it all sorted out and Chuck offers a little more and rounds up, just to be nice. No problem. By this time, the four of us have been hanging out at the back of this guy's car for a good 15 minutes, so if a cop pulls into the parking lot, we probably looked like we were doing a drug deal.
Anyway, we have the guy pull his car around to Chuck's new Pennyhauler2 to make moving the load easier. Chuck pays him and we start hauling all the large boxes over to his trunk. The guy helped me with the first case, as it had two handles on it; I was shocked at how much it weighed and actually struggled for the first few seconds; man, copper is heavy!
The guy thanks us, shakes our hands and goes on his way. I tell him to stop spending pennies on his wife and that now he will have to spend some of those FRN's to make her happy.
I look at the trunk with all of the loot and we take a moment to admire the new stash. Man, what a load. We discuss the deal and I tell Chuck that it was a great score; he agreed with me too (I won't say the exact deal he made, since this is a public forum). I say, man, I need to get a few of these from you, once you get it all sorted it. To my surprise, Chuck is kind enough to offer me the already-filled 1941-63 Whitman book and tells me to go ahead and fill/upgrade my existing Dansco folder and just bring back whatever you don't use to the next coin club meeting. A very nice gesture on his part. "Thanks for the labor and helping me out too, but I can only pay you in pennies!" he says slyly.
If I could figure out how to upload a photo, I could show everyone the bulging sack with the empty comemmoratives boxes, laying by the Franklins plaque. Anyway, they say that you learn something new every day. Today was no exception.
I now officially have part of Hoard's stack.
First, we chatted about the silver/copper markets, the going rates for buy/sell etc, how to be as efficient as possible with your sorting time, Ryedale stuff, when to hold/not hold capital/funds etc. We were standing in an area where I happened to notice a guy selling a boatload of silver commemorative coins to the local high-end middleman (you know the one...the guy that has the suitcases full of cash/PMs and the one that everybody goes to when they want to sell/buy something). Sometimes, they call him the market maker. Others call him the answer man.
Curiosity was killing me because this guy was quickly and efficiently taking about 30 silver BU commemorative coins out of their large keepsake boxes and laying out his stack to be sold. Chuck goes over and says, 'Hey, do you mind if I keep the empty boxes?' He says sure, as long as the middleman doesn't want them. Of course, the middleman knows Chuck very well and says, 'Keep them' . And so, Chuck gives a big smile as he starts filling up his canvas bag (with handles). 'Chuck, you mean you hoard empty boxes too?' Sure, he says. After all, people will end up wanting them after they obtain their case-less 1oz commemorative and I can sell (or re-sell) it to them for a dollar, he says gleefully.
Maybe we should change his name to HBBTT (Hoard boxes by the ton). Better still, how about 'HEBTT' Hoard everything by the ton?Anyway, the same guy then sells a beautiful complete 35-piece BU set of Franklins on a single plaque (all years and mints) to the middleman. I'm already frothing at the mouth when looking at it. So Chuck asks him if he could keep the plaque after the middleman removes all the Franklins. Sure, no problem! But this time, he talks to the middleman (let's call him John) and says, "hey John, how much for the set if I pay you cash right now? And make sure you make a bit of profit for yourself too while you're at it. After all, you paid for the table as well. " John runs the calculator and gives Chuck a dollar amount. Chuck gives him the cash (without even thinking about the amount he paid) and there you have it...a complete set of BU Franklins for under spot, including a free marble-style plaque plus two/three higher-value coins for under spot price as well. Heck, John didn't even get to touch them or have to ship them out to another dealer/buyer the next day! The whole thing took one minute. DAMN. Anyway, everyone wins (the seller, John the middleman, Chuck the hoarder).
Afterward, we're sitting and talking and I run the math on the Franklins...yup, under spot price. NICE. So we start talking about capital and how you can't make any money unless you do large volume and you don't hold onto your stuff...in other words, get it in, get it out. Then this guy who recognizes Chuck comes over and says, "Hey Chuck! I've got a customer who has a boatload of pennies over at this other dealer's table and it's too much for the small dealer to handle. You want them, or are you done for the day? " Chuck says, 'Sure, I have time; I'll take them; where's the seller?' We head on over and listen in; the wife has convinced her husband to dump his penny hoard so that he can spend more time with her (of course). The guy is actually very organized and has all of his stuff neatly written down on four pages. I listen in, keep my mouth shut (after all, it's business) and watch. Chuck looks at the guy's paperwork for a couple minutes, asks a couple of questions and then makes an offer, based on regular coppers (59-82) and Wheats. He agreed and we all head out to the guy's car. Chuck also explained to them that he does this stuff by the ton and the husband/wife laughed.
We check out the guy's trunk. He has six heavy cases of stuff with almost all rolls broken down by tubes and labeled. There were over 200 tubes with Wheats (earliest is 1942), plus almost 500 rolls of Coppers. Oh, and don't forget the thirty (30) empty free Whitman folders that go along with the deal, plus even an already filled 1941-63 Whitman folder. Great, says Chuck, I can give the folders to some kids that I know and get them started on coins. The wife looks on while Chuck does his magic and starts calculating and putting all the full tubes in one area and partial tubes in another area. I offer up my cellphone calculator for the final numbers, but first, I help out with the partials and we fill several to capacity. I'm secretly frothing at the mouth as I see that 1955-S BU roll, a 1970-S roll (will there be a small date in this roll?) and BU steel pennies tube. I estimate that the guy has probably been at this for 5-10 years and ask him how long he's had his collection; about ten years, he replied. Good guess! I feel like patting myself on the back. We get it all sorted out and Chuck offers a little more and rounds up, just to be nice. No problem. By this time, the four of us have been hanging out at the back of this guy's car for a good 15 minutes, so if a cop pulls into the parking lot, we probably looked like we were doing a drug deal.
Anyway, we have the guy pull his car around to Chuck's new Pennyhauler2 to make moving the load easier. Chuck pays him and we start hauling all the large boxes over to his trunk. The guy helped me with the first case, as it had two handles on it; I was shocked at how much it weighed and actually struggled for the first few seconds; man, copper is heavy!The guy thanks us, shakes our hands and goes on his way. I tell him to stop spending pennies on his wife and that now he will have to spend some of those FRN's to make her happy.
I look at the trunk with all of the loot and we take a moment to admire the new stash. Man, what a load. We discuss the deal and I tell Chuck that it was a great score; he agreed with me too (I won't say the exact deal he made, since this is a public forum). I say, man, I need to get a few of these from you, once you get it all sorted it. To my surprise, Chuck is kind enough to offer me the already-filled 1941-63 Whitman book and tells me to go ahead and fill/upgrade my existing Dansco folder and just bring back whatever you don't use to the next coin club meeting. A very nice gesture on his part. "Thanks for the labor and helping me out too, but I can only pay you in pennies!" he says slyly.
If I could figure out how to upload a photo, I could show everyone the bulging sack with the empty comemmoratives boxes, laying by the Franklins plaque. Anyway, they say that you learn something new every day. Today was no exception.
I now officially have part of Hoard's stack.
