Realcent.org

Hey all,

So as we all know the mint is in the process of considering compostion changes for the penny and nickel. Obviously the nickel seems to be the one on the priority list. So people suggested that the penny will be discontinued but I for dont believe this happen for a while, and that yet another composition change will happen to the penny AGAIN. A lot of talks of have been about the composition change for a penny to be steel, which would make 'cents' for the mint. But this brings up another question. Zinc. So if zinc is discontinued will you all hold onto some zincers? Its only .06 of a cent right now but this all about speculation anyways. I think its safe to say the price of zinc will pass 1 cent sometime sooner rather than later, maybe quite soon depending upon the speed of the 'compostion change program'. So what do guys think, hold on to zinc or cash it?

I think you should cash it in now. Your money is better off in more copper or nickel.

I would cash in as the volume and weight would add up quick, but I am curious to hear if others are hoarding zinc too? If I wasn't concerned about the storage requirements and having more capital tied up I would consider it. I just think their are better uses of capital and better investments than to purchase and hold zinc at 65% above market prices.

I don't have the energy to hoard something else!

If you have a lot more sorting money and storage space than you can find coins to sort then I guess it couldn't hurt, but if not you are much better off keeping the money cycling to get more copper while you can. The zinc coins should be plentiful for some time after a composition change but the copper is disappearing right now.

psi wrote:If you have a lot more sorting money and storage space than you can find coins to sort then I guess it couldn't hurt, but if not you are much better off keeping the money cycling to get more copper while you can. The zinc coins should be plentiful for some time after a composition change but the copper is disappearing right now.

Two words....zinc rot.

jerry278 wrote:Hey all,

So as we all know the mint is in the process of considering compostion changes for the penny and nickel. Obviously the nickel seems to be the one on the priority list. So people suggested that the penny will be discontinued but I for dont believe this happen for a while, and that yet another composition change will happen to the penny AGAIN. A lot of talks of have been about the composition change for a penny to be steel, which would make 'cents' for the mint. But this brings up another question. Zinc. So if zinc is discontinued will you all hold onto some zincers? Its only .06 of a cent right now but this all about speculation anyways. I think its safe to say the price of zinc will pass 1 cent sometime sooner rather than later, maybe quite soon depending upon the speed of the 'compostion change program'. So what do guys think, hold on to zinc or cash it?

If they stop using zinc in pennies, you seem to be saying that the composition change would cause the price of zinc to rise. Why would that be? Why would changing from zinc to something else cause zinc to be more valuable? Maybe I'm missing something.

If anything, if the gov't stopped using zinc in the penny, it would seem that there would be a lot more available zinc on the market, which may cause the price to go down, not up.

I was skeptical that US penny production made up very much of the worldwide supply, so I just did some spreadsheet calculations and got a total of about 264 billion pennies from 1983 to 2007, at 97.5% of 2.5g of zinc each that gives a total of 642,695 tonnes. That averages out to 25,708 tonnes a year. The top 5 zinc producing countries mined just over 7 million tonnes in 2009. That 25.7k tonne average for pennies works out to about 1/3 of a percent of that which seems less than earth-shattering. On the other hand, if all the zinc pennies were melted at once then there would be roughly 700,000 tonnes extra, about 10% of that 7 million tonne figure and probably enough to cause prices to drop significantly for a while. Canada and the US each produced about that much in 2009.

So, assuming those figures are correct, there may not be much of an impact on zinc market prices. Still, I don't see how the Mint ceasing to use zinc in pennies would do anything to make zinc or zinc pennies more valuable.

No connection between penny composition and price of zinc, but there could be a connection between price of zinc and the penny's compostion. Catch the drift, hehe?

Keeping zinc ties up way too much money that could be used to buy more unsorted pennies. Keeping zinc, is like keeping a lot of money in a bank. It doesn't make "cents"....

Deal

NotABigDeal wrote:No connection between penny composition and price of zinc, but there could be a connection between price of zinc and the penny's compostion. Catch the drift, hehe?

Keeping zinc ties up way too much money that could be used to buy more unsorted pennies. Keeping zinc, is like keeping a lot of money in a bank. It doesn't make "cents"....

Deal

You're right, it doesn't make "cents", it only makes .6 cents.

Dump Zinc Always! OK, you can keep the 2009 LP 1,2,3,4 pennies (cents ) if you just have to have some zinc.

i think we will be collecting the zinc pennies one day, but I agree with the others, we still got lots of copper pennies to get.

Only advantage I can see to keeping the zinc pennies, is if the government does away with pennies, they may recall them at higher than face value to encourage people to turn them in.

If the government decides to do away with pennies or nickels, there could be many ramifications.
1. They could announce that all those wishing to be reimbursed for the defunct coins must return them to a bank by X date.
2. The gov't could also set a limit to the amount that can be exchanged. See the article in the link below.
3. The gov't could issue pre-loaded debit cards good for the amount turned in to get Americans used to a cashless society.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ma ... ncy-reform
Notable excerpt:
Although people were allowed to exchange currency – at a rate of 100 to one – only a small amount could be changed. That wiped out the savings of slightly better off North Koreans who had managed to put aside money through trading.

Food prices soared as uncertainty over contradictory policies led to hoarding, the ICG said. By mid-January there were reports of rising deaths from starvation, thought to have prompted the release of emergency food supplies.

The problems may have been exacerbated by the decision to pay those on state salaries the wage level in the new currency – in theory increasing their real incomes 100 times over.

Genuine zinc pennies for sale.. only 5% over face value plus shipping.. let me know how manyyou want

OK... this definitely ties into another thread on 2010 pennies and a theory I have.

So... I tend to think that hoarding zincs is useless right now since there are billions of them available at any time (and will be even after a composition change given that they are/will be worth less than a penny when the change occurs). HOWEVER... I think that certain zincs WILL become more valuable (hence the tie in previously mentioned)... 2010 and 2011's (look that thread up). I think THEY will be the ones to have (apart from the 2009's as already mentioned). Why? Because #1 they will be BU condition and #2 they will be the second most rare of the zincolons with the new shield design (next to the 2009 designs). THAT is why I am holding onto a few boxes of zincolons. NOT MANY... but enough that if I turn out to be right... then I'll be HAPPY. But if I'm wrong... I haven't really lost anything and I'll still have those boxes that I can cash easily. So... my sugestion...

I'd hang on to a few boxes of 2010 and/or 2011's if you #1) want to hang on to zincs and #2) agree with my hypothesis. I think 2009's go without question either way. If you disagree (as MANY on here I already know do... and that's fine with me) then I can clearly see the argument for dumping them to search for more copper. My only argument against that is... do you REALLY tie up THAT much of your FRN's into sorting for copper? If so... then I TOO WOULD NOT keep zincs! Me... I have no prob keeping $100 in zincs for my theory. But I wouldn't keep $1000. That much would be best used in silver, nickel, or gold... or more Cu! I guess that goes to point out it's more of an individual ratio thing...

Just my 2 cents worth... both copper... no wait... zincs... sorry... I don't spend my Cu's!

Happy hunting!

Interesting thoughts from everyone. Pennybug I tend to agree to what your saying, primarily in that you shouldnt keep 'TOO MUCH' tied up in zincs, but might not hurt a little for the 2009 and shields. Or perhaps if you collect mint sets I am sure they would appreciate to some extent if they discontinued the penny/changed the composition. Anyone here familiar with any industrial uses of zinc, other than making pennies?

Pennybug wrote: I think that certain zincs WILL become more valuable (hence the tie in previously mentioned)... 2010 and 2011's (look that thread up). I think THEY will be the ones to have (apart from the 2009's as already mentioned). Why? Because #1 they will be BU condition and #2 they will be the second most rare of the zincolons with the new shield design (next to the 2009 designs). THAT is why I am holding onto a few boxes of zincolons.

OK, but you're not really hoarding zincs, which is what the start of the thread suggested doing. You're just hoarding (collecting) a CERTAIN specific coin(s) that you think will have collectible value. That's fine I suppose if you really think 09, 10, and 11s will be valuable, but as for hoarding post-82 pennies for the zinc content, I can't see any reason why they would suddenly gain value from eliminating or changing the content of the penny.

Take your choice between item A and item B. They are both the same size and they cost the same amount.

Item A is worth 2.5 cents give or take.

Item B is worth .06 cents.

Which one do you want?

The largest use of Zinc is to make the anti corrosion coating commonly known as Galvanization. The second largest use is as an alloy with other metals. It also is used in paint, batteries,and rubber.

http://www.mineralprospector.com/zinc

jerry278 wrote:Interesting thoughts from everyone. Pennybug I tend to agree to what your saying, primarily in that you shouldnt keep 'TOO MUCH' tied up in zincs, but might not hurt a little for the 2009 and shields. Or perhaps if you collect mint sets I am sure they would appreciate to some extent if they discontinued the penny/changed the composition. Anyone here familiar with any industrial uses of zinc, other than making pennies?

Z. I. N. C. stands for Zinc Investments? No Chance.

Interesting input from everyone. Thanks for that chart VWBeamer. I know this seems like an obvious question, and most people responded with the obvious (keep the pre 82) despite that I think its something to be considered. Obviously a pre-82 is much more desirable but we have to think people, why would the 'CURRENT' penny be changed to different metal... Theres obviously some value to it. Frankly I think we're all too used to have the pre 82 at 2.7 times face and the .06 Zinc gets totally shunned. I would say when pre-82 becomes completely impossible to find (that and the nickel god forbid) that we may see people flock to the zincoln. Just a hypothesis. 20 years is a long way off, but I think its safe to say that it will be worth atleast double its face value by then. And remember, pre-82's were changed/appreciated significantly in the last twenty years...
How many people can say that in 1981 they were readily collecting pennies because of speculated appreciation. (ok i know some of the guys on here maybe, but you get my point.)

exbingoaddict wrote:Take your choice between item A and item B. They are both the same size and they cost the same amount.

Item A is worth 2.5 cents give or take.

Item B is worth .06 cents.

Which one do you want?

Well put.

Deal

A zinc penny is worth 0.6 cents, not .06 cents. If zinc doubles in twenty years, it would be worth 1.2 cents. So basically, for every penny you invest in zinc today, you would get a 20% return on it over 20 years in that scenario. No thanks! I would rather re-invest that penny to buy another box of pennies from the bank to hopefully get a copper one. It makes no sense to hoard zinc until copper percentages go way, way down and/or zinc raises in value. The opportunity cost of holding zinc in the form of a penny is too high today.

OK... I 100% agree with EVERYTHING everyone is saying about the zincs... IF you only are considering their MELT VALUE. I'm NOT hanging on 2010's for their zinc content. I'm hanging on to them for their potential numismatic value due to their rarity. As for the 83's to the 08's... I TOTALLY agree with everyone else about the zincs. 2009's and up to the composition change... I disagree. I think they will have a significantly higher value in the medium term future due to their rarity.