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Hi everyone,

I have been able to aquire a source for Canadain copper pennies and was wondering what kind of interest you guys would have in them. I will have access to several tons a week. PM or post questions and comments.

Can they legally be melted in the US?

Diggin4copper wrote:Can they legally be melted in the US?

There are no laws in US forbidding the defacing of foreign coins that I am aware of.

Bob.

I get a fairly steady supply of Canadian Copper (albeit on a much smaller scale)... with Canadian Copper at 98%, American at 95% - Does this make Canadian more desirable?

justj2k78 wrote:I get a fairly steady supply of Canadian Copper (albeit on a much smaller scale)... with Canadian Copper at 98%, American at 95% - Does this make Canadian more desirable?

I may be mistaken, but yes I believe generally this does make canadian more desirable. However depending upon the years the weight of the coin can differ drastically. Like .5 of a gram difference sometimes if not more, so you gotta check the dates. The fact that its 98% compared to 95% makes it slightly more desirable. That 3% difference cant hurt. I cannot speak on the laws regarding foreign coins however.

I would like to acquire a source like that.

I would like to know about the legalities of melting these coins.

http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/customer- ... aq-1100010

Search for "illegal".

So the question is: Is it legal for people within the United States to melt Canadian coins?

The answer is technically "no" as this would still be breaking the Canadian law, as their coinage is still theirs wherever you put it.

Will it be enforced? Good question. The answer is probably "no" unless you are doing it at a multi-ton level over a period of time.

If convicted, would you spend your time in a Canadian prison or a US facility?

And would the time be shorter or longer in Canadian prison based on the current exchange rates?

HoardCopperByTheTon wrote:If convicted, would you spend your time in a Canadian prison or a US facility?

And would the time be shorter or longer in Canadian prison based on the current exchange rates?

You would spend time in a US facility until extradited to Canada. I'm guessing based on the civility of the Canadians that their prisons are quite nice though

What I want to know is, once melted how can 98% copper be refined into .999? I read somewhere that you can boil the copper and the zinc will burn off, but I can't confirm it.

Its too bad all of those Canadian cents are in Portland, shipping would be a killer. Unless it can be refined, melting would be a waste of time.

All the best...Bob.

barrytrot wrote:http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/customer-service/faq-1100010

Search for "illegal".

So the question is: Is it legal for people within the United States to melt Canadian coins?

The answer is technically "no" as this would still be breaking the Canadian law, as their coinage is still theirs wherever you put it.

Will it be enforced? Good question. The answer is probably "no" unless you are doing it at a multi-ton level over a period of time.

Yes, its illegal in Canada! Does Canada have any jurisdiction here in the U.S?? NO! Do you think the U.S is really going to care? Not unless Canada throws a fit. Than the U.S will simply shut you down. There is people who export and melt down Canadian on a weekly basis. Maduece from the old site also got some of his nickel refined.

Also if Canada cared that much than why wouldn't there be an export ban on their coins???

HoardCopperByTheTon wrote:I would like to acquire a source like that.

Well you can aquire the copper through me.

tbram88 wrote:What I want to know is, once melted how can 98% copper be refined into .999? I read somewhere that you can boil the copper and the zinc will burn off, but I can't confirm it.

Its too bad all of those Canadian cents are in Portland, shipping would be a killer. Unless it can be refined, melting would be a waste of time.

All the best...Bob.

I don't know what procedure is required to convert 98% cu pennies into .999....but it seems it would be a little easier and a little less expensive process than converting 95% cu pennies into .999.

The two countries do have mutual extradition treaties from what I understand, probably it would be wise for anyone who intended to melt coins to get legal advice first. From the Canadian side there seemingly is no problem with export aside from the $10k declaration limit, but a Canadian shipping coins to someone who they knew intended to melt them might also be violating Canadian law.

There is a long tradition of taking coins from one country and melting them in another. Here is an interesting thread on the same question http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topi ... C_ID=82593
And this is an interesting read. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2 ... -coin.html

I don't know what law you would be breaking. I mean you are in the US. Unless there is a law on the US books regarding the melting of Canadian pennies(which I highly doubt) ,there is no offense. I would suppose that the Canadian selling those pennies would be subject to the Canadian laws regarding the export of the pennies. You can't hardly be guity of a law from 1 country if the offense is legal in the country the offense is committed. I suppose that is why Amsterdam is so popular.

Copper Member wrote:I don't know what law you would be breaking. I mean you are in the US. Unless there is a law on the US books regarding the melting of Canadian pennies(which I highly doubt) ,there is no offense. I would suppose that the Canadian selling those pennies would be subject to the Canadian laws regarding the export of the pennies. You can't hardly be guity of a law from 1 country if the offense is legal in the country the offense is committed. I suppose that is why Amsterdam is so popular.

The difference here is that the property rights of one country or even person go beyond national boundaries.

Not exactly a perfect analogy (completely different legal charge and the countries are reversed) but for a fairly recent example of a Canadian citizen who was extradited for breaking US law from within Canada, search "Marc Emery". It seems that extradition requires political will from both sides though, and it may well be very unlikely or even completely unprecedented for melting coins. For a currency related example I came across something on Sean Garland, an IRA member allegedly involved in distributing counterfeit US currency (N. Korean "superdollars") outside the US. He has not been extradited to date but the US government has asked for his extradition from Ireland.

I know in Canada, for the first time ever, a man was charged under Canadian law with a crime he committed while outside Canada. This case is ongoing and is going to be used to set a precedent.

psi wrote:Not exactly a perfect analogy (completely different legal charge and the countries are reversed) but for a fairly recent example of a Canadian citizen who was extradited for breaking US law from within Canada, search "Marc Emery". It seems that extradition requires political will from both sides though, and it may well be very unlikely or even completely unprecedented for melting coins. For a currency related example I came across something on Sean Garland, an IRA member allegedly involved in distributing counterfeit US currency (N. Korean "superdollars") outside the US. He has not been extradited to date but the US government has asked for his extradition from Ireland.

Marc Emery while based in Canada, was selling pot seeds in the USA. The American figure that is illegal because he was selling the product in the USA, and I tend to agree.

Passing counterfeit currency of any country tends to be illegal everywhere. If you passed counterfeit Canadian currency or stock certificates or even handbags in the USA you would be committing a crime.

The case referenced in another post I presume involve child prostitution. The laws against being involved in child prostitution are very specific about making it illegal anywhere in the world for a Canadian resident. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Canada

One thing I didn't realize about the coin melting laws in Canada is that the maximum penalty is 12 months in prison and/or a $250 (!) fine, plus seizure of the materials. The fact that a relatively short prison sentence is involved might reduce the chances that anyone would bother going through with extradition. My point with those two examples was just that both people were non-US citizens who were accused of breaking US law while (apparently) remaining physically outside US borders. The counterfeiting case I thought was interesting because it appears that no part of the offense was alleged to have taken place within the US, yet there was still an appeal to have him extradited and tried under US domestic law. Frugalcanuck's example is a little different because at least the country is charging its own citizen.

barrytrot wrote:

Copper Member wrote:I don't know what law you would be breaking. I mean you are in the US. Unless there is a law on the US books regarding the melting of Canadian pennies(which I highly doubt) ,there is no offense. I would suppose that the Canadian selling those pennies would be subject to the Canadian laws regarding the export of the pennies. You can't hardly be guity of a law from 1 country if the offense is legal in the country the offense is committed. I suppose that is why Amsterdam is so popular.

The difference here is that the property rights of one country or even person go beyond national boundaries.

An off the books answer from a lawyer told me that a Canadain in the U.S is still bound by the melting rules even though they are in the U.S. An American citizen doesn't have to abide by Canadain law, while in the U.S, as long as the coin was legally brough to the U.S. Unless the U.S makes a law stating its illegal to melt coinage from other countries inside the U.S you are peferectly safe.

That's what I thought.