Question for buyers and sellers.....

[Pachucko]

I'd like to hear from buyers and sellers to see if their opinions are different:

What is an acceptable ZCR (Zinc Contamination Rate) for a lot of copper pennies?

For example, I opened a box of supposedly copper pennies last night and noticed a shiny one on top. Checked and it was a 1995. Should I feel gypped? Is a .5 % ZCR acceptable (just to throw a number out there)?

What are your thoughts??

Regards......Pachucko

[aloneibreak]

i know a few might get by here and there, but .5 % would be unacceptable to me

i expect less than 10 zincs per $100 cu

[Morsecode]

If it was a 1995 doubled die, no I wouldn't feel gypped

But .5% is high. I agree with 10 per 10,000.

[VWBEAMER]

I agree, more than 10 I would be upset.

But if think about, even at melt value we are talking about 20 cents on a 100 dollar purchase.

[Rodebaugh]

How many clad dimes would be acceptable in a $100 face purchase of Silver roosies? ZERO

Copper is much more lax.......but I still do not want to sort "sorted" coin for contamination.

[68Camaro]

How many clad dimes would be acceptable in a $100 face purchase of Silver roosies? ZERO

Copper is much more lax.......but I still do not want to sort "sorted" coin for contamination.

A major difference between pennies of the two types and other coins sorted is that both type of pennies are both primarily composed of only two things: copper and zinc. (Though the far older pennies also contained tin.) I've not seen published material composition specs on the tolerance of the pre-82 copper blanks, but there was a tolerance on the content of all the constituents; there always is. Major constituents in an alloy are normally specified to no more than 3 significant digits. This tells me that one zinc penny out of 1000 copper pennies would not be detectable in a melt as being any different than any other melt, and would remain in spec. That is also 99.9% accuracy in a sort. Both are acceptable numbers to me. That's 2-3 zincs max, in a $25 box. That seems fine to me, and I would not be upset at receiving that.

Edit: Which also happens to be 10 zincs in a $100 bag, as I am reminded was posted by several others above. So I think most of us are on the same wavelength, though I approached it from the technical side.

[Snake42]

Sometimes zincs get in the batch. Especially when the ryedale jams and overflows if you dont shut it off fast enough. I usually throw a few more coppers in than necessary. So who cares it works out in the end.

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

This is why all my copper goes through a second "copper verification sort" prior to shipping. Purity is very important to me. As a buyer the degree of contamination would depend somewhat on price I paid.. but 1 per 1000 seems to be the norm. All incoming copper gets a copper verification sort to assure the purity of the hoard.

[fasteddy]

I dont want any zincs when I buy...but I am not going to return them....but will remember the seller...same goes with ugly Abe's and cleaned penniesI dont want them...If I get an excessive amount of Ugly Abes in my purchase from you, I will remember....I got a lot of cleaned pennies once in a trade...I haven't forgot They smell up the hoard. I too sort all incoming cents for purity....In fact I have an inbound lot from Joogaler, today or tomorrow.

[barrytrot]

I dont want any zincs when I buy...but I am not going to return them....but will remember the seller...same goes with ugly Abe's and cleaned penniesI dont want them...If I get an excessive amount of Ugly Abes in my purchase from you, I will remember....I got a lot of cleaned pennies once in a trade...I haven't forgot They smell up the hoard. I too sort all incoming cents for purity....In fact I have an inbound lot from Joogaler, today or tomorrow.

Eddy: You do realize that people *can make mistakes*, right?

Contact the seller and see if it was a mistake or intentional.


Everyone makes mistakes. If the seller made a mistake see if they have a desire to fix it.

PERMANENTLY holding a grudge is not the best business model.

[fasteddy]

oH cRAP i FORGOT MY SMILIE FACE...I never hold a grudge...in fact what were we talking about....well...on the cleaned pennies....about one third of the box was cleaned pennies....lessoned learned, now I ask or state what is acceptable in trade. I have done biz with Joogaler before...I am not worried.

[Corsair]

In my hoard, I expect as close to perfection as humanly and mechanically possibly. Just like Hoard, I double sort all of my copper, and try to visually inspect as many coins as possibly during the sorting and boxing process. In the words of a wise Master, "Do or do not. There is no try." Either it's a $25 box of copper pennies or it isn't.

[68Camaro]

I appreciate the levels of perfection suggested by several, but for the price levels we're talking about (base metals) some of this leans a bit toward OCD. (Though perhaps sorting is a bit OCD to start with.)

Y'all do realize that when you eat a hamburger, or buy wheat flour, etc, that the FDA allows a certain percentage of undesirable material in it, don't you? (I won't gross out the readers here as to what is allowed, but the standards can be found on the web.)

[shinnosuke]

Mice droppings!

[GulchGuy]

In my experience, with a properly tuned comparitor, a zinc will never end up in the copper bin. But you do give up some 'tin' alloy when this strict.

[bman]

I am a hand sorter and seller. I think 99.9% should be acceptable which comes out to 1 per 1000 coins.

[Snake42]

I appreciate the levels of perfection suggested by several, but for the price levels we're talking about (base metals) some of this leans a bit toward OCD. (Though perhaps sorting is a bit OCD to start with.)

I'm with you. It seems a little over the top to try and get it 100% when we are talking in values of 1$ or less.

[fasteddy]

sort all incoming cents for purity....In fact I have an inbound lot from Joogaler, today or tomorrow

well FYI....I sorted Joogaler's shipment...my Apprentice agreed with Joogalers...100%.

Nice packing Joogaler...if you got any more let me know....may PU some more from you.

[shinnosuke]

I think the one thing this thread has convinced me of is that as an amateur hand-sorter, I will not sell my Cu to any realcenters. I might have missed a zincoln or two and would hate to damage the relationship.

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

shinnosuke.. whether the cents are hand sorted, or machine sorted.. most of us expect there might be a few zincolns that thought better of themselves and tried to make the hop to the good pile. It's only when the sorting is really sloppy that anyone gets concerned.

[aloneibreak]

just to be clear on my post...

ive bought copper from 15 or more members here over the years and never had any problem with excessive zincs

[Pachucko]

I am a hand sorter and seller. I think 99.9% should be acceptable which comes out to 1 per 1000 coins.

So is that 0.001%??

[Corsair]

1/1000 is 0.1%. It is one-tenth of one percent.

0.001% is one-thousandth of one percent. It would be one part per one hundred thousand, or one zinc cent in $1000 face value of presumed copper cents.

[Pachucko]

1/1000 is 0.1%. It is one-tenth of one percent.

0.001% is one-thousandth of one percent. It would be one part per one hundred thousand, or one zinc cent in $1000 face value of presumed copper cents.

Thank you; that little voice in the back of my mind was telling me the answer was 0.1%, but my calculator was telling me 0.001%, I knew that had to be too small. Disclosure: I was good in math, but always had trouble with percentage stuff!!

[Corsair]

Whenever you divide two numbers, to get the percent, you always have to multiply by 100. A number is never in percents unless it is multiplied by 100. Percent = per cent = per 100 units. That's why, even though 1 goes into 1 one times, 1/1 only equals 1, not 100%. To get from 1/1 = 1 to 100%, you have to multiply by one hundred.