Realcent.org

I'd like to hear from buyers and sellers to see if their opinions are different:

What is an acceptable ZCR (Zinc Contamination Rate) for a lot of copper pennies?

For example, I opened a box of supposedly copper pennies last night and noticed a shiny one on top. Checked and it was a 1995. Should I feel gypped? Is a .5 % ZCR acceptable (just to throw a number out there)?

What are your thoughts??

Regards......Pachucko

i know a few might get by here and there, but .5 % would be unacceptable to me

i expect less than 10 zincs per $100 cu

If it was a 1995 doubled die, no I wouldn't feel gypped

But .5% is high. I agree with 10 per 10,000.

I agree, more than 10 I would be upset.

But if think about, even at melt value we are talking about 20 cents on a 100 dollar purchase.

How many clad dimes would be acceptable in a $100 face purchase of Silver roosies? ZERO

Copper is much more lax.......but I still do not want to sort "sorted" coin for contamination.

Rodebaugh wrote:How many clad dimes would be acceptable in a $100 face purchase of Silver roosies? ZERO

Copper is much more lax.......but I still do not want to sort "sorted" coin for contamination.

A major difference between pennies of the two types and other coins sorted is that both type of pennies are both primarily composed of only two things: copper and zinc. (Though the far older pennies also contained tin.) I've not seen published material composition specs on the tolerance of the pre-82 copper blanks, but there was a tolerance on the content of all the constituents; there always is. Major constituents in an alloy are normally specified to no more than 3 significant digits. This tells me that one zinc penny out of 1000 copper pennies would not be detectable in a melt as being any different than any other melt, and would remain in spec. That is also 99.9% accuracy in a sort. Both are acceptable numbers to me. That's 2-3 zincs max, in a $25 box. That seems fine to me, and I would not be upset at receiving that.

Edit: Which also happens to be 10 zincs in a $100 bag, as I am reminded was posted by several others above. So I think most of us are on the same wavelength, though I approached it from the technical side.

Sometimes zincs get in the batch. Especially when the ryedale jams and overflows if you dont shut it off fast enough. I usually throw a few more coppers in than necessary. So who cares it works out in the end.

This is why all my copper goes through a second "copper verification sort" prior to shipping. Purity is very important to me. As a buyer the degree of contamination would depend somewhat on price I paid.. but 1 per 1000 seems to be the norm. All incoming copper gets a copper verification sort to assure the purity of the hoard.

I dont want any zincs when I buy...but I am not going to return them....but will remember the seller...same goes with ugly Abe's and cleaned penniesI dont want them...If I get an excessive amount of Ugly Abes in my purchase from you, I will remember....I got a lot of cleaned pennies once in a trade...I haven't forgot They smell up the hoard. I too sort all incoming cents for purity....In fact I have an inbound lot from Joogaler, today or tomorrow.

fasteddy wrote:I dont want any zincs when I buy...but I am not going to return them....but will remember the seller...same goes with ugly Abe's and cleaned penniesI dont want them...If I get an excessive amount of Ugly Abes in my purchase from you, I will remember....I got a lot of cleaned pennies once in a trade...I haven't forgot They smell up the hoard. I too sort all incoming cents for purity....In fact I have an inbound lot from Joogaler, today or tomorrow.

Eddy: You do realize that people *can make mistakes*, right?

Contact the seller and see if it was a mistake or intentional.


Everyone makes mistakes. If the seller made a mistake see if they have a desire to fix it.

PERMANENTLY holding a grudge is not the best business model.

oH cRAP i FORGOT MY SMILIE FACE...I never hold a grudge...in fact what were we talking about....well...on the cleaned pennies....about one third of the box was cleaned pennies....lessoned learned, now I ask or state what is acceptable in trade. I have done biz with Joogaler before...I am not worried.

In my hoard, I expect as close to perfection as humanly and mechanically possibly. Just like Hoard, I double sort all of my copper, and try to visually inspect as many coins as possibly during the sorting and boxing process. In the words of a wise Master, "Do or do not. There is no try." Either it's a $25 box of copper pennies or it isn't.

I appreciate the levels of perfection suggested by several, but for the price levels we're talking about (base metals) some of this leans a bit toward OCD. (Though perhaps sorting is a bit OCD to start with.)

Y'all do realize that when you eat a hamburger, or buy wheat flour, etc, that the FDA allows a certain percentage of undesirable material in it, don't you? (I won't gross out the readers here as to what is allowed, but the standards can be found on the web.)

Mice droppings!

In my experience, with a properly tuned comparitor, a zinc will never end up in the copper bin. But you do give up some 'tin' alloy when this strict.

I am a hand sorter and seller. I think 99.9% should be acceptable which comes out to 1 per 1000 coins.

68Camaro wrote:I appreciate the levels of perfection suggested by several, but for the price levels we're talking about (base metals) some of this leans a bit toward OCD. (Though perhaps sorting is a bit OCD to start with.)

I'm with you. It seems a little over the top to try and get it 100% when we are talking in values of 1$ or less.

fasteddy wrote:sort all incoming cents for purity....In fact I have an inbound lot from Joogaler, today or tomorrow

well FYI....I sorted Joogaler's shipment...my Apprentice agreed with Joogalers...100%.

Nice packing Joogaler...if you got any more let me know....may PU some more from you.

I think the one thing this thread has convinced me of is that as an amateur hand-sorter, I will not sell my Cu to any realcenters. I might have missed a zincoln or two and would hate to damage the relationship.

shinnosuke.. whether the cents are hand sorted, or machine sorted.. most of us expect there might be a few zincolns that thought better of themselves and tried to make the hop to the good pile. It's only when the sorting is really sloppy that anyone gets concerned.

just to be clear on my post...

ive bought copper from 15 or more members here over the years and never had any problem with excessive zincs

bman wrote:I am a hand sorter and seller. I think 99.9% should be acceptable which comes out to 1 per 1000 coins.

So is that 0.001%??

1/1000 is 0.1%. It is one-tenth of one percent.

0.001% is one-thousandth of one percent. It would be one part per one hundred thousand, or one zinc cent in $1000 face value of presumed copper cents.

Corsair wrote:1/1000 is 0.1%. It is one-tenth of one percent.

0.001% is one-thousandth of one percent. It would be one part per one hundred thousand, or one zinc cent in $1000 face value of presumed copper cents.

Thank you; that little voice in the back of my mind was telling me the answer was 0.1%, but my calculator was telling me 0.001%, I knew that had to be too small. Disclosure: I was good in math, but always had trouble with percentage stuff!!

Whenever you divide two numbers, to get the percent, you always have to multiply by 100. A number is never in percents unless it is multiplied by 100. Percent = per cent = per 100 units. That's why, even though 1 goes into 1 one times, 1/1 only equals 1, not 100%. To get from 1/1 = 1 to 100%, you have to multiply by one hundred.