let's say they drop the penny from circulation

[goldteam]

and they tell you to turn in what you have and you keep all your coppers

Is there any chance no one wants the coppers and you are just sitting there with nothing to show for it?

In other words, the price stays somewhat stagnant, and they aren't melting them, and no one wants them because they are turned in.

[highroller4321]

I believe there will always be someone who wants them because they have value.

[barrytrot]

And there is zero chance of demonetization without lifting the melt ban.

[Corsair]

And there is zero chance of demonetization without lifting the melt ban.

But they won't demonetize them. With the exception of the Trade Dollar, that's never happened before in the history of the United States. With time, electronics and inflation, they'll just start to drift away from everyday transactions.

[goldteam]

I believe there will always be someone who wants them because they have value.

I worry the penny goes away, copper never truly takes ahold and you are sitting there with them.

I always know they are 1 cent even as copper. If they are called in and taken out of circulation, they are no longer worth 1 cent.

What if the time to turn in your pennies is when copper is low. It's almost like I have a choice to make.

I know I will hang on to them, but I also will feel, will I ever have a buyer and am I going to be stuck?

[highroller4321]

I believe there will always be someone who wants them because they have value.

I worry the penny goes away, copper never truly takes ahold and you are sitting there with them.

I always know they are 1 cent even as copper. If they are called in and taken out of circulation, they are no longer worth 1 cent.

What if the time to turn in your pennies is when copper is low. It's almost like I have a choice to make.

I know I will hang on to them, but I also will feel, will I ever have a buyer and am I going to be stuck?

Copper has to drop a significant amount for the copper value to be less than 1 penny. Also if the time comes to turn them in you will always be able to get face value for them. I would vanture to say that its very very unlikely for the copper value ever to be less than 1 cent again.

[VWBEAMER]

When they encouraged people to turn in their Gold dollars during the 30"s, they did not demonetize then. A Double eagle still has 20 dollars face value.

Even silver certificates that are not even FRN, can be redeemed at the bank for a dollar.

No investment plan is fool proof( yes, hoarding pennies is an investment plan), but your greatest risk is lost opportunity cost.

I can see no way that you can lose you initial investment of 1 cent, both the dollar and copper would have to fall.

[hobo finds]

And there is zero chance of demonetization without lifting the melt ban.

But they won't demonetize them. With the exception of the Trade Dollar, that's never happened before in the history of the United States. With time, electronics and inflation, they'll just start to drift away from everyday transactions.

In 1965 the coinage act made them legal tender again http://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com/U ... llars.html

[Lemon Thrower]

many english speaking countries have demonetized coins. it'll happen here.

once the inflation gets so bad that there is no point in denying anymore, they'll just stop making the penny. we are getting close to that now because a lot of merchants just round to the next nickel as it is. once they stop making the penny, they'll either simultaneously or soon thereafter say that you have x amount of time to turn your old ones in. they'll demonetize them because otherwise people will have to accept them and that'll be a nuissance.

now, once they demonetize them the melt ban should be lifted. that'll be a windfall to anyone holding copper rather than zinc.

[aristobolus]

I could be wrong, but in the U.S. I do not think they will demonitize the pennies if they stop minting them. The last thing this government wants is to call attention to itself in this manner.

Futhermore, we are a different sort of people than in New Zealand and the like. We really do not like being told what to do. I think instead they will pull them out of circulation by attrition. Also with the possible coming hyperinflation, pennies will be turned in by the populace willingly due to their only having value in bulk. Imagine one twenty five dollar box buying a loaf of bread?

[StoreOfValue]

-"I can see no way that you can lose you initial investment of 1 cent, both the dollar and copper would have to fall."
You are right VW, so I'm guessing you just misspoke on the dollar and copper. In general, they have an inverse relationship.

-"Imagine one twenty five dollar box buying a loaf of bread?"
When $25 buys a loaf of bread, aristobolus, BOTH a box of zincs and coppers will buy several. Right now, a SINGLE ROLL of coppers is worth about a loaf in real value while it would take about 5 rolls of zincs. This relationship will hold pretty closely as a relative value.

To paraphrase:

1-box ZINCS = roughly 10 loaves of bread
1-box COPPERS = roughly 50 loaves of bread

ALWAYS.

[VWBEAMER]

No mistake. The inverse relationship is what protects the investments, since both are not likely to happen at the same time.

-"I can see no way that you can lose you initial investment of 1 cent, both the dollar and copper would have to fall."
You are right VW, so I'm guessing you just misspoke on the dollar and copper. In general, they have an inverse relationship.

[hejira11]

To paraphrase:

1-box ZINCS = roughly 10 loaves of bread
1-box COPPERS = roughly 50 loaves of bread

ALWAYS.

Nice analogy!

[Morsecode]

I go along with the attrition theory. The cent will be discontinued at some near future date, but they will never be called in. Banks, on the other hand, will be instructed to ship all cents that come in to them back to Treasury, where they'll go into the furnace. No more buying Lincolns at the bank.

There will probably be an initial rush to clean out sock drawers and cash in from many who will mistakenly interpret the discontinuation as a deadline; the vast majority will float around for decades.

If the gov't ever had reason to recall something it would be $500 & $1000 notes, given their paranoia over drugs and terrorism, and yet these are still legal tender. True, any of these notes presented to a bank since 1969 (not very many) have been swept out of circulation, but last I saw there were still 165,000+ $1000 bills still in private hands...and a few hundred $5000 bills.

Have they been tempted to outlaw them? I bet they wish they could just make them disappear, though.

[psi]

That's a good point about the $500 and $1000 bills, demonetization would draw more out of private hands (although collectible value of the remaining bills might actually increase due to rarity). A truly hardline approach with the bills would be to ban their possession after a specified redemption period expires, which has not been done despite the fact that large numbers of people wouldn't care since it doesn't affect them directly, and those who would be affected are painted as potential criminals. Really there are are no guarantees that any government will do what previous governments have done though, you just have to try to make an informed guess.

[Know Common Cents]

Pity the politician who signs the law to stop minting the cent. While most people under 30 care less about the penny (and even toss them into the trash), those of us in our 50s and older will look upon that act as validation the economy has reached the point of no return. It's going to take at least another decade until the Baby Boomers either start dying out in bigger numbers or start losing our minds before that could be effectively done.

I do agree that most will be placated by keeping the penny, but switching to steel planchets like Canada. We Boomers still remember the penny as having some purchasing power in its own right. Three of them could, at one time, mail a letter or buy several long pretzels or pieces of candy. Granted, I don't still mow yards for $1.25, but I also realize that things change.

[aristobolus]

-"I can see no way that you can lose you initial investment of 1 cent, both the dollar and copper would have to fall."
You are right VW, so I'm guessing you just misspoke on the dollar and copper. In general, they have an inverse relationship.

-"Imagine one twenty five dollar box buying a loaf of bread?"
When $25 buys a loaf of bread, aristobolus, BOTH a box of zincs and coppers will buy several. Right now, a SINGLE ROLL of coppers is worth about a loaf in real value while it would take about 5 rolls of zincs. This relationship will hold pretty closely as a relative value.

To paraphrase:

1-box ZINCS = roughly 10 loaves of bread
1-box COPPERS = roughly 50 loaves of bread

ALWAYS.

I think we may have a definate lack of connecting with what I said, perhaps this was my fault in not communicating well.

To further clarify, if someone gives a hypothetical such as "imagine it taking $1000.00 to purchase a pair of jeans", a reponse that in such a scenario it would be possible to "buy several" is changing the scenario. It is like me saying "imagine it will be cloudy tomorrow", and someone responding "in such a situation, it will only be partly cloudy". Or another way of putting it is that your response seemed to preclude the possibility of a loaf of bread costing twenty five dollars in the future. I must be missing something?

[John_doe]

With hr 5512, there will be no need to do away with the cent. They will just make it worth nothing.

[John_doe]

Pity the politician who signs the law to stop minting the cent. While most people under 30 care less about the penny (and even toss them into the trash), those of us in our 50s and older will look upon that act as validation the economy has reached the point of no return. It's going to take at least another decade until the Baby Boomers either start dying out in bigger numbers or start losing our minds before that could be effectively done.

I do agree that most will be placated by keeping the penny, but switching to steel planchets like Canada. We Boomers still remember the penny as having some purchasing power in its own right. Three of them could, at one time, mail a letter or buy several long pretzels or pieces of candy. Granted, I don't still mow yards for $1.25, but I also realize that things change.

Couldn't agree more. Although I'm under 30.

And they will be minting steel cents in the us, zinc was short lived. Hr 5512!

[Morsecode]

Didn't that bill die three years ago?

[Lemon Thrower]

I could be wrong, but in the U.S. I do not think they will demonitize the pennies if they stop minting them. The last thing this government wants is to call attention to itself in this manner.

the govt will stop minting pennies only when inflation is so out of hand that its pointless. they'll continue to mint zincs even if they lose money on it unitl the inflation is so abvious they have nothing to lose by discontinuing the penny. so at the point they discontinue the penny, there is nothing more to lose and they'll demonetize it shortly afterwards. if they don't demonetize it, it'll be a pain in the neck because people will still have to accept them.

the interesting thing is once they are discontinued the scramble will be on to source cents.

[aristobolus]

I could be wrong, but in the U.S. I do not think they will demonitize the pennies if they stop minting them. The last thing this government wants is to call attention to itself in this manner.

the govt will stop minting pennies only when inflation is so out of hand that its pointless. they'll continue to mint zincs even if they lose money on it unitl the inflation is so abvious they have nothing to lose by discontinuing the penny. so at the point they discontinue the penny, there is nothing more to lose and they'll demonetize it shortly afterwards. if they don't demonetize it, it'll be a pain in the neck because people will still have to accept them.

the interesting thing is once they are discontinued the scramble will be on to source cents.

Exactly.

[totalcount]

-"I can see no way that you can lose you initial investment of 1 cent, both the dollar and copper would have to fall."
You are right VW, so I'm guessing you just misspoke on the dollar and copper. In general, they have an inverse relationship.

-"Imagine one twenty five dollar box buying a loaf of bread?"
When $25 buys a loaf of bread, aristobolus, BOTH a box of zincs and coppers will buy several. Right now, a SINGLE ROLL of coppers is worth about a loaf in real value while it would take about 5 rolls of zincs. This relationship will hold pretty closely as a relative value.

To paraphrase:

1-box ZINCS = roughly 10 loaves of bread
1-box COPPERS = roughly 50 loaves of bread

ALWAYS.

I think we may have a definate lack of connecting with what I said, perhaps this was my fault in not communicating well.

To further clarify, if someone gives a hypothetical such as "imagine it taking $1000.00 to purchase a pair of jeans", a reponse that in such a scenario it would be possible to "buy several" is changing the scenario. It is like me saying "imagine it will be cloudy tomorrow", and someone responding "in such a situation, it will only be partly cloudy". Or another way of putting it is that your response seemed to preclude the possibility of a loaf of bread costing twenty five dollars in the future. I must be missing something?

Sticking with the bread.

If a loaf of bread costs $25, then a $25 box of zinc pennies would be worth $250 in metal value, you could sell it, then take the resulting dollars and buy 10 loaves of bread. (note that I didn't double check StoreOfValue's math.) Generally, the metal value (or melt value) of coins is less than the face value, but for copper pennies that isn't true, and if there were significant inflation then it wouldn't be true for zinc pennies either. This is totally different from your clouds scenario.

[OtusLotus]

If a loaf a bread were to cost $25.. I will stick to matzohs!

[aristobolus]

-"I can see no way that you can lose you initial investment of 1 cent, both the dollar and copper would have to fall."
You are right VW, so I'm guessing you just misspoke on the dollar and copper. In general, they have an inverse relationship.

-"Imagine one twenty five dollar box buying a loaf of bread?"
When $25 buys a loaf of bread, aristobolus, BOTH a box of zincs and coppers will buy several. Right now, a SINGLE ROLL of coppers is worth about a loaf in real value while it would take about 5 rolls of zincs. This relationship will hold pretty closely as a relative value.

To paraphrase:

1-box ZINCS = roughly 10 loaves of bread
1-box COPPERS = roughly 50 loaves of bread

ALWAYS.

I think we may have a definate lack of connecting with what I said, perhaps this was my fault in not communicating well.

To further clarify, if someone gives a hypothetical such as "imagine it taking $1000.00 to purchase a pair of jeans", a reponse that in such a scenario it would be possible to "buy several" is changing the scenario. It is like me saying "imagine it will be cloudy tomorrow", and someone responding "in such a situation, it will only be partly cloudy". Or another way of putting it is that your response seemed to preclude the possibility of a loaf of bread costing twenty five dollars in the future. I must be missing something?

Sticking with the bread.

If a loaf of bread costs $25, then a $25 box of zinc pennies would be worth $250 in metal value, you could sell it, then take the resulting dollars and buy 10 loaves of bread. (note that I didn't double check StoreOfValue's math.) Generally, the metal value (or melt value) of coins is less than the face value, but for copper pennies that isn't true, and if there were significant inflation then it wouldn't be true for zinc pennies either. This is totally different from your clouds scenario.

Now I get it. What you (and maybe others) are saying is that NOT ONLY WOULD ONE BE ABLE TO BUY A LOAF OF BREAD FOR A BRICK OF LINCOLNS, but that a shrewder move would be to sell the copper content and purchase even more. I am sorry, but for me that was and is a given.

But seriously, in such a hyperinflation situation the window to sell may be short. It is quite possible that a new currency would come about rather quickly. My plan is to store food, hoard bullion, and ride out the currency correction. I would rather go fishing than blow ten dollars worth of copper out of a brick.

This conversation definately shows the limits of internet speak. If we were with one another in flesh and blood the conversation would go much more smoothly, with greater clarity.