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adagirl wrote:This is what I thought. So in effect, the coinflation price for Cu pennies is "inflated" relative to what one could expect to earn from a scrap yard. And Ebay listings etc. of "melt value" are misleading since Cu pennies would be rated #2 copper by yards since the pennies only contain 95% Cu.

joemac wrote:I don't believe you have a good understanding of the copper grades. Bright stripped copper is stripped wire, very shiny-100% copper though. #1 is the next grade and it is mainly clean pipe. Doesn't have to be shiny, just not corroded-100% copper. Lastly #2 is everything else. The nasty green and black corroded stuff. But again 100% copper. Since 82 and prior pennies are not pure copper, their category has not yet been determined. The most right answer is that when they are legal to be melted, the smelters will develop a grade for them.

ScottyTX wrote:

adagirl wrote:This is what I thought. So in effect, the coinflation price for Cu pennies is "inflated" relative to what one could expect to earn from a scrap yard. And Ebay listings etc. of "melt value" are misleading since Cu pennies would be rated #2 copper by yards since the pennies only contain 95% Cu.

From that perspective, one could easily say that coinflation prices are also quite a bit inflated from what a refiner is willing to pay for 90% silver coins. Comex prices are just a baseline in which to meausre the price of the corresponding commodity. In the end, something is worth what another is willing to pay. I know many of us are not judging the price of silver (90%, bars, rounds whatever)based on what the refiner will pay as they trade quite a bit higher than that, I would assume the same might/would be true of copper pennies in the future. Yeah sure taking them (copper pennies) to the scrap yard if/when melting is legal again is a quick buck..... but in my mind there will be ample oppertunities to trade copper pennies in which actually melting them would not be their final destination. Personally I believe if your ultimate plan is just to turn a quick buck then yeah you should buy according to what you can dump them at the scrap yard for.................

Scotty

ScottyTX wrote:

joemac wrote:I don't believe you have a good understanding of the copper grades. Bright stripped copper is stripped wire, very shiny-100% copper though. #1 is the next grade and it is mainly clean pipe. Doesn't have to be shiny, just not corroded-100% copper. Lastly #2 is everything else. The nasty green and black corroded stuff. But again 100% copper. Since 82 and prior pennies are not pure copper, their category has not yet been determined. The most right answer is that when they are legal to be melted, the smelters will develop a grade for them.

This topic has been beat to death in the past, and our best guess/estimate is they will be considered #2 copper when/if they will be able to be melted. This has been verified by several people in the past years at their local yards. I would say that 95% copper pennies would fall into the #2 category or at least be right in line with the prices that are being offered for #2 copper at the time.

ScottyTX wrote:From that perspective, one could easily say that coinflation prices are also quite a bit inflated from what a refiner is willing to pay for 90% silver coins. Comex prices are just a baseline in which to meausre the price of the corresponding commodity. In the end, something is worth what another is willing to pay. I know many of us are not judging the price of silver (90%, bars, rounds whatever)based on what the refiner will pay as they trade quite a bit higher than that, I would assume the same might/would be true of copper pennies in the future. Yeah sure taking them (copper pennies) to the scrap yard if/when melting is legal again is a quick buck..... but in my mind there will be ample oppertunities to trade copper pennies in which actually melting them would not be their final destination. Personally I believe if your ultimate plan is just to turn a quick buck then yeah you should buy according to what you can dump them at the scrap yard for.................

Scotty

jasmatk wrote:copper+zinc=brass

so pennies are brass a very high quality brass but still brass.

ed_vantage17 wrote:

ScottyTX wrote:From that perspective, one could easily say that coinflation prices are also quite a bit inflated from what a refiner is willing to pay for 90% silver coins. Comex prices are just a baseline in which to meausre the price of the corresponding commodity. In the end, something is worth what another is willing to pay. I know many of us are not judging the price of silver (90%, bars, rounds whatever)based on what the refiner will pay as they trade quite a bit higher than that, I would assume the same might/would be true of copper pennies in the future. Yeah sure taking them (copper pennies) to the scrap yard if/when melting is legal again is a quick buck..... but in my mind there will be ample oppertunities to trade copper pennies in which actually melting them would not be their final destination. Personally I believe if your ultimate plan is just to turn a quick buck then yeah you should buy according to what you can dump them at the scrap yard for.................

Scotty

Caveat Emptor. There's a reason this particular Latin phrase has worked itself into common English and I think it's applicable here as well.

ScottyTX wrote:[quote="adagirl] I have no plans to dump my Cu penny stash. I am thinking more of the newbies who are taking the coinflation price or "melt value" as literal. Ethically I think we have some resposibility in educating new comers.[/quote]

I completely understand your point there but.... Bullion metals are most commonly traded +/- to their actual spot price. There is not a huge market to guage what the +/- to spot price is. Copper pennies at this time do not follow the +/- spot/melt price currently. I believe that refenencing their value in actual metal content may be the only way to currently assess their value??? In fact, I would argue that it would "almost" be bad business to refer to copper pennies to, what one could scrap them at the yard for, as it is currently illegal to do so. I'm just arguing the other side as I do see your point, but I believe your point is based solely on the assumption that the pennies will all trade in the future based on what you take them to the scrap yard for and I call foul on that one.........

Scotty[/quote]

HoardCopperByTheTon wrote:Next you will say we should inform folks about the true value of that paper stuff they call money. Then you would say the price of Silver Eagles shouldn't be so high since it is only an ounce of silver. Prices will be above or below melt depending on several factors.

I love when someone comes up to my table at a coin show, picks up a shiny 1 pound copper bar out of the stack.. and asks me "what is the melt value on this?"

I was negotiating a 2 ton deal with a scrapyard prior to the melt ban and they were going to buy it at the #2 copper price.

adagirl wrote:

jasmatk wrote:copper+zinc=brass

so pennies are brass a very high quality brass but still brass.

excellent point. I have seen others refer to the 95% pennies as brass, and in some markets these little brass pieces being worth more than the coinflation value!

adagirl wrote:Wow, you did some homework here. Thanks for sharing.