The definitive argument against nickels over copper cents?

[camtender]

Holding copper’s price static (and negating the sorting of copper cents vs. no sorting of nickel – since there are plenty of copper cents out there), the price of nickel would have to surpasses $56 dollars a pound to have the same margin over face as copper cents as of today (@ approximately 280%).

The odds of nickel moving a significant amount (as noted above) without copper also moving some would be slim. It is hard to see a situation where this would happen, but there was a time not so long ago when nickel was consider more valuable/useful than silver…

Having said that, I am still trying to find 99% CA nickels…………………………

Thoughts?

[coppertone]

I am Canadian, but don't like spending too much money on even .999 nickels as I believe it will be hard to realize the full metal value of the coin. I prefer the penny as the metal/face value is better and after the demise of the penny I hope to be able to realize this value easily.

[999Ni]

The odds of nickel moving a significant amount (as noted above) without copper also moving some would be slim.

In '07 when nickel spiked to $25/lb, copper was just hovering in the mid $3 range and even fell to $3/lb. when nickel spiked. It didn't get to $56, but point is that base metals CAN move independently of one another.

If we have a major outbreak of war or some kind of TSHTF scenario, then I would agree with that statement.

[Copper Catcher]

Go to Coinflation: http://www.coinflation.com/coin_calculators.html

Look at Base Metal Coin Melt Value Calculator

Type in $25 face in 95% copper pennies = Total melt value is $70.17.

Type in $25 face in nickels = Total melt value is $32.50.

Ya'll keep saving all those nickels you want too and leave the 95% copper for others that appreciate the value. Case Closed!

[999Ni]

I think most people who hoard nickels hoard coppers too...

[JadeDragon]

I've had no problems selling Pure Nickel 5cents for 10 cents each. Never moved copper pennies for 2 cents each yet. I collect both though.

[frugalcanuck]

Jade Dragon raisis the best point I have heard in a while. I dont know how or why I havent thought that before.

It doesnt matter what the price the metal markets say your copper disk is worth. All that matters is what you are able to sell for. There are many people out there and on here that will pay $200 for $100 FV of .999 Ni. I have not heard of anyone within the last year buying or selling $100 FV coppers for anywhere near $200. I useually hear between $140 and $180 for $100 FV copper. So to all those who say copper pennies are more profitable than .999 Ni I think the profit does not exist untill it is realized.

How many people would trade $100 FV .999 Ni for $100 FV Cu cents. I smell a poll coming on here

[Corsair]

Jade Dragon raisis the best point I have heard in a while. I dont know how or why I havent thought that before.

It doesnt matter what the price the metal markets say your copper disk is worth. All that matters is what you are able to sell for. There are many people out there and on here that will pay $200 for $100 FV of .999 Ni. I have not heard of anyone within the last year buying or selling $100 FV coppers for anywhere near $200. I useually hear between $140 and $180 for $100 FV copper. So to all those who say copper pennies are more profitable than .999 Ni I think the profit does not exist untill it is realized.

How many people would trade $100 FV .999 Ni for $100 FV Cu cents. I smell a poll coming on here

I don't know who has been saying that .999 Ni is less profitable than .950 copper. That's just ridiculous. With nickel, you can actualize a 100% profit in an instant. Unfortunately, copper isn't there yet. It will be. I think the main argument here, though, is whether or not to tie up FRNs that could go to copper in 75/25 US nickels. But when it comes to .999, to me, it's no contest.

[camtender]

Yes, the 99% CA is the way to go. However, the 75/25 US is not so clear. I guess there is a reason to hold some right now if there was a sudden run on them and they were hard to get a hold of.

[Lemon Thrower]

i have a different view of the trade off.

where i live, copper only averages about 12.5%.

so you can't compare a box of 100% copper cents with a box of nickels, because the box of cents has to be sorted.

i have done the math at 12.5% for my area and the break even is at a copper price of $10.50. That means if you are going to invest a given amount of cash in unsorted boxes, and storage space is not an issue, you have more value with unsorted cents until copper reaches $10.50, after which its better to buy nickels. the way i figured this i gave zero value to the 25% of nickels which are not copper. If you add a value for that, then the tradeoff moves to a lower copper price. if you get more copper where you live, then the tradeoff moves to a higher copper price.

if anyone wants my spreadsheet, pm me and i'll email it to you.

of course this assumes you are not sorting the coppers. there is an investment in time and energy in sorting coppers and what is best really depends on how you value your time and available alternative uses for your time. personally i have little time for sorting pennies lately, my life is just too busy.

a lot of this is academic for a number of reasons. first, most people will run out of room for unsorted pennies before they run out of dollars. second, many of us intend to keep hoarding until copper is much much higher. third, it remains to be seen what value you can actually realize from the copper cents or nicks - the comparison is just a comparison of intrinsic copper value, not an estimate of future market value. i don't know anyone who has sold any us nickels for more than 5 cents lately.

i have given a lot of thought to this for a while and my conclusions are
- if you have a lot of free time, or you just plain enjoy it, the best deal is to sort pennies and hold the copper and return the zincs.
- if your time is short or valuable, the best deal is to buy sorted copper from other members if you can get it cheap enough. I have bought over $2,000 face for 1.3X or less.
- nickels are an interesting speculation and have some interesting aspects:

I like have some funds outside of the banking system in case the ATMs go down. I can buy groceries or gas with a box of nickels. Also, since i have only face value invested, if i need funds my investment in nickels is very liquid - i can just take them to the bank. If you want to sell your copper cents, figure on a week or so to get paid and a backache to boot.

everyone's situation is different and this is what makes sense for me.

[97guns]

what about getting 17-18% copper, thats what i was averaging and i just decided to go with nickels.

[Corsair]

With respect to the current nickel and copper spot prices, the value of copper in a nickel is at $.0358. The value of nickel in a nickel is $.0302. That means, if copper were to take a significant drop, nickel spot would have to double before the nickel again reached parity. I just don't believe that will happen. The metal value of a nickel in terms of it's Ni value alone would require a massive spot price of nickel. Yes, it was up to (I believe) $26/lb back in 2008. That is roundabout the level it would have to go to again just for the nickel in a nickel to be worth, well, a nickel.

Why bet on two metals? Why wait for a composition change? Why wait for the lift of a melt ban so that you can make 20% profit on your nickel and make 200% profit on your penny? It just doesn't make cents. Stock copper, not nickel.

[didou]

If you live in Canada with very high shipping cost it's not really possible to make profit by selling copper cents right now, unless you move them yourself over the border and ship them from the U.S., never try and not sure about all the legal issue. Copper is for long term profit.

But with Canadian nickels and it's higher price by pound, it's possible to make a profit right now. Nickels is for very short term profit.

$10 lbs is way better than $4 lbs when you take into account shipping.

For U.S. hoarder it's seem the opposite you make profit right now by selling copper cents and none or long term with your cupro-nickels 5 cents.

[rickygee]

I think I'm just about sure I'm going to take half my US nickel hoard to the credit onion. Take the cash (no fee!) and buy some ASEs. Need the room for more copper cents, yeah you guys have convinced me cents make more sense, and one can never have too many silver rounds.

[HPMBTT]

I hoard it all....copper/nickel/silver/gold. I like to diversify; this way, all my eggs are not in one basket. So if something happens to one type of metal, it's highly unlikely that the same exact thing would happen to all other metals.

[Lemon Thrower]

nickels make sense if:
- you dont' want to sort
- you want an extremely low risk high liquidity speculation
- you want some emergency cash outside of the banking system
-copper is over $9/lb

[rickygee]

Well, I ran 1/4 of my US nickel hoard thru the cu's counter today and I gotta admit...those frn's couldn't compare to the feeling of heavy metal.

So I went and used the paper to buy some silver rounds. Feel much better.

[rickygee]

Dam, Ya'll can thank me for the silver dip.