Nickels for Bitcoins

[Crescendo]

Hello, long time lurker, small time poster, big time coin enthusiast.

If you had the opportunity to trade bitcoins for as many bags of nickels as you wanted (appropriate exchange rate and small fee inclusive), would you do it? This would of course be an in person deal. Would love to hear your thoughts, thank you!

[highroller4321]

I would avoid bitcoins untill they get there stuff together.

[slvrbck]

In this case I think I might actually prefer dollars as they are widely known to be acceptable TP should that day come. I don't pretend to know much about them and might be naive but something about the bitcoin just screams fraudulence to me. I do respect the ingenuity.

[barrytrot]

Somehow bitcoins (based on mtgox.com) are back to $12 each. Wow.

As highroller says I wouldn't touch them, other than generating the free ones (assuming that still works).

And now at $12 each, I would be even less bullish than I was at $5 each a few months ago.

[mflugher]

Meh bitcoins are high risk for sure. but could be high reward. I don't see any problem with throwing a few hundred at them just for fun. I wouldn't make them any significant portion of your portfolio though, nor would I expect them to actually work out and assume that cash is thrown away.

What I am looking for is when the 20MM ( haven't looked it up in a while) bitcoin limit is reached and mining "stops" assuming that happens then each bitcoin can be divided like 128k (again shakey on specific number) times into fractional bitcoins. At that point we will find out if bitcoins have any future or not... I'd like to be holding a few bitcoins at the time that limit is reached and the bitcoins start going fractional as that could be when a price explosion (should it ever happen) would start to happen...

the new affordable high end mining rigs are going to depress bitcoin prices heavily I believe. Not the time to invest in a rig or on the coins themselves... But they should bring about the reaching of the limit a lot quicker.

[Crescendo]

The feedback is much appreciated! In fact, it sounds like all of you would be happy to exchange bitcoins for nickels given the preference for dollars. I mean hey, if you had bitcoins, and don't like them, you'd want to ditch them right?

Now of course the friendly advice to stay away from them is noted, however, to each their own of course and for all intent and purposes for now at least, I'd like to acquire bitcoins in exchange for coin, nickels, junk silver, etc. There's a few things I'm trying out. Especially given the two huge influences on the bitcoin market about to come to fruition (block goal reach and tech enhancement coming out).

[Crescendo]

Meh bitcoins are high risk for sure. but could be high reward. I don't see any problem with throwing a few hundred at them just for fun. I wouldn't make them any significant portion of your portfolio though, nor would I expect them to actually work out and assume that cash is thrown away.

What I am looking for is when the 20MM ( haven't looked it up in a while) bitcoin limit is reached and mining "stops" assuming that happens then each bitcoin can be divided like 128k (again shakey on specific number) times into fractional bitcoins. At that point we will find out if bitcoins have any future or not... I'd like to be holding a few bitcoins at the time that limit is reached and the bitcoins start going fractional as that could be when a price explosion (should it ever happen) would start to happen...

the new affordable high end mining rigs are going to depress bitcoin prices heavily I believe. Not the time to invest in a rig or on the coins themselves... But they should bring about the reaching of the limit a lot quicker.

Insightful response! This has me pondering the outcome as well. Theoretically, bitcoins have an inflationary steady curve though. Meaning, the creation of new bitcoins compared to blocks won't expand faster but rather the intensity of the difficulty, reduction in reward payout, and supposed enhancement to security through increase of difficulty. Then again, the stronger hashing rigs will have a reverse effect on quantity of miners putting "more hashing eggs in one basket" so to speak. The influence on its currency exchange rate should be interesting. I'm actually really curious what the "smaller" miners will do with their gpu (cpu too? yikes) mining to see if they turn them off, tread on, or perhaps seeks some of the alternative bitcoin currencies out there and how that'd influence those alternatives as a result.


EDIT: I'm not sure how they are "high risk" or how "they need to get their stuff together" - the security elements comes into play with the individual user. The bitcoins are not hacked, the wallets are hacked from improper handling or servers where people hold their wallets are hacked for the same reason. Cold storage is the only logical course for a wallet holding large quantities of bitcoins with a small spending wallet(s) for use. Plenty of sites out there facilitate that for free. There are many guides on proper security measures for those not technologically "with it" to that extent. But either way, that's the argument for why they won't go mainstream. Then again, why would you want it to go mainstream? The expansion of money supply regarding bitcoins expands at a rate requiring long term, steady growth. An explosion into the money system of bitcoins would kill the currency by driving up the price ensuring the average person could never afford them. It's the only non-controlled fiat currency in existence that I'm aware of. Not to say it doesn't have its own pros and cons. This isn't a get rich thing I'm advocating. Just simply something to contemplate, even if just ideologically.

[barrytrot]

high risk -> due to the fact that they are worth $12 today but could be worth $1 tomorrow. Not the "theft" risk which I'm sure is lower than most forms of "cash".

[Crescendo]

high risk -> due to the fact that they are worth $12 today but could be worth $1 tomorrow. Not the "theft" risk which I'm sure is lower than most forms of "cash".

Oh well of course yes if the purpose is to convert to dollars and pegging the value to the dollar, absolutely. But then again, when the world stops trading in dollars for oil, that may no longer be relevant.

[barrytrot]

high risk -> due to the fact that they are worth $12 today but could be worth $1 tomorrow. Not the "theft" risk which I'm sure is lower than most forms of "cash".

Oh well of course yes if the purpose is to convert to dollars and pegging the value to the dollar, absolutely. But then again, when the world stops trading in dollars for oil, that may no longer be relevant.

When that happens call me, until then it's very relevant. And until you can buy food using "space credits" you will probably benefit from more "dollars" and not fewer.

[brian0918]

A currency collapse is coming - it's only a matter of time. But how it plays out on a day-by-day basis is unpredictable, so it's best to diversify and prepare for significant losses in many (but hopefully not all) of your holdings. One thing is for sure: no matter what, everyone's standard of living is going to significantly drop for quite a while as the economy works to undo the damage of the last several decades. How available will electricity be during the worst of it, let alone computers, let alone an internet connection, let alone enough other members of the bitcoin network to keep it secure and reliable?

One benefit that bitcoin has, assuming a reliable bitcoin network is available somewhere, is its ability to safely transfer wealth out of country, to a more a stable region, wherever that may be.

[barrytrot]

The transferring wealth portion makes some sense but getting it back to "folding money" of whatever kind exists at that point I think will be more difficult than just the computer transfer.

[brian0918]

The transferring wealth portion makes some sense but getting it back to "folding money" of whatever kind exists at that point I think will be more difficult than just the computer transfer.

Well folding money is only a means to an end, not an end itself. So if you can find someone willing to accept bitcoins who can trade you food/shelter/etc, you wouldn't bother with cash. Presumably you would move to an area that is most accepting of bitcoin at the time.

[barrytrot]

The transferring wealth portion makes some sense but getting it back to "folding money" of whatever kind exists at that point I think will be more difficult than just the computer transfer.

Well folding money is only a means to an end, not an end itself. So if you can find someone willing to accept bitcoins who can trade you food/shelter/etc, you wouldn't bother with cash. Presumably you would move to an area that is most accepting of bitcoin at the time.

Once you are moving based on bitcoin availability I would think you have taken a wrong turn somewhere

[fansubs_ca]

What I am looking for is when the 20MM ( haven't looked it up in a while) bitcoin limit is reached and mining "stops"

I don't think it actually ever stops from what I've read, the creation rate just progressivly
slows so it keeps getting closer but never reaches that point. The "limit" is an amount
that would be reached if it ran for "infinite time" but at any actual time it will always be
short of the "limit" even though by progressively smaller amounts. Works kinds like this:

http://xkcd.com/994/

So the newly created Bitcoins being added will be progressively smaller and smaller
percentages of the existing supply. Eventually more and more of the value fluctuations
will be from changes on the "demand" side. That it's self will remain a major wildcard.

[brian0918]

That's not correct - eventually (assuming the network remains intact), all the bitcoins will be generated. Also, the difficulty doesn't just keep going higher and higher - it adapts to match the processing power of the network. If the network collapses to two computers, the difficulty will (eventually) plummet to the lowest possible. See here.

[fansubs_ca]

OK, I forgot to account for the limit of divisibility so it stops "just under" 21,000,000.

I was thinking of the 21,000,000 as that "if there was infinite time" limit.

[mrrosado]

I looked online. There are not too many places that take them. Many sites that do take them are down. I don't understand why people are paying $11-$20 for them. The bitcoin exchanges ask for too much personal information. I would trade them for nickels if I had some (I don't have any). However, if they're donated we will take them since they seem to be easy to sell on ebay. I created a bitcoin donation page as you can see below.

[Crescendo]

I looked online. There are not too many places that take them. Many sites that do take them are down. I don't understand why people are paying $11-$20 for them. The bitcoin exchanges ask for too much personal information. I would trade them for nickels if I had some (I don't have any). However, if they're donated we will take them since they seem to be easy to sell on ebay. I created a bitcoin donation page as you can see below.

Well though I can appreciate your response, since you don't understand why people want them, that's why you don't see a value there. The page you have is just a cpu miner javascript based website to have visitors mine coins for you, right?

[mflugher]

high risk -> due to the fact that they are worth $12 today but could be worth $1 tomorrow. Not the "theft" risk which I'm sure is lower than most forms of "cash".

Oh well of course yes if the purpose is to convert to dollars and pegging the value to the dollar, absolutely. But then again, when the world stops trading in dollars for oil, that may no longer be relevant.

When that happens call me, until then it's very relevant. And until you can buy food using "space credits" you will probably benefit from more "dollars" and not fewer.

This is precisely what I meant by high risk. Tomorrow bitcoin2 could come out and be more secure and somehow more accepted by the public... thats the risk I'm scared of with bitcoins.

Any upward price break is going to be on demand side, not supply side imho.

[Crescendo]

The progression of this conversation has intrigued me. After all, all mediums of exchange, bitcoins, dollars, euro, yen, yuan.... all mediums of exchange hold risk as at anytime, if no one wants them, their value deteriorates. We've seen this through hyperinflation as the most prevalent example.

So risk-aside. The point is your goal, right? What do you intend to do with said item whether be trading and receiving nickels or trading and receiving bitcoins. It's about perceived value and ultimate intentions and goals, is it not?

[mflugher]

So risk-aside. The point is your goal, right? What do you intend to do with said item whether be trading and receiving nickels or trading and receiving bitcoins. It's about perceived value and ultimate intentions and goals, is it not?

As I understand it he is selling or at least considering selling nickels to buy bitcoins... An idea I think is inadvisable in the short term unless its money that is complete gambling money anyway. Not sure if a black/red spin on roulette wheel would be a better choice lol.

Frankly in my mind, a fiat currency collapse can only reduce, not increase the value of bitcoin imho (in real terms not in terms compared to some hyper inflated dollar/yen/euro etc) As skittish people will want to flee to something more "real" and all the careful explanations of coding/limits built into the system won't convince your average non computer engineer that its not just so easy to hack/counterfeit/make more bitcoins as paper money was 10 years ago before the currency collapse.

[Crescendo]

So risk-aside. The point is your goal, right? What do you intend to do with said item whether be trading and receiving nickels or trading and receiving bitcoins. It's about perceived value and ultimate intentions and goals, is it not?

As I understand it he is selling or at least considering selling nickels to buy bitcoins... An idea I think is inadvisable in the short term unless its money that is complete gambling money anyway. Not sure if a black/red spin on roulette wheel would be a better choice lol.

Frankly in my mind, a fiat currency collapse can only reduce, not increase the value of bitcoin imho (in real terms not in terms compared to some hyper inflated dollar/yen/euro etc) As skittish people will want to flee to something more "real" and all the careful explanations of coding/limits built into the system won't convince your average non computer engineer that its not just so easy to hack/counterfeit/make more bitcoins as paper money was 10 years ago before the currency collapse.

I agree completely. But then keep in mind, to accept Bitcoins as payment does not equate to keeping the payment in Bitcoins after payment is received.

[mflugher]

I agree completely. But then keep in mind, to accept Bitcoins as payment does not equate to keeping the payment in Bitcoins after payment is received.

Sorry I hadn't realized you were OP when I first read this and responded...


Of course accepting bitcoins does not equate to keeping bitcoins for any length of time.

I'm not sure what your question is anymore after reviewing the discussion...

[mrrosado]

I looked online. There are not too many places that take them. Many sites that do take them are down. I don't understand why people are paying $11-$20 for them. The bitcoin exchanges ask for too much personal information. I would trade them for nickels if I had some (I don't have any). However, if they're donated we will take them since they seem to be easy to sell on ebay. I created a bitcoin donation page as you can see below.

Well though I can appreciate your response, since you don't understand why people want them, that's why you don't see a value there. The page you have is just a cpu miner javascript based website to have visitors mine coins for you, right?

Yes but it was so slow I already removed the link.