What's in Your Stack?

[beauanderos]

Obviously, as made evident by the number of participants in Nate's Sigma Analyzer group buy, many member's are growing more and more concerned regarding the proliferation of counterfeit coins, bars, and rounds being fabricated in China. You can either combat it, on an individual basis, at considerable cost (yet just averting one mistake on an ounce of gold will recoup your investment)... or trust the source of your purchases as being unimpeachable. The trouble is, the fakes are getting so good that even the experts can be fooled. No one is infallible.

Here's the question. If you haven't already made plans to buy your own bullion verifier, would you pay a modest increase in 90% silver roll price, or on any size gold item, as a guarantee that someone else has already gone to the effort to ascertain their 100% authenticity?

[blackrabbit]

I am buying a verifier for the peace of mind when buying any precious metal. It is awesome that it does platinum and palladium too as I would have no idea besides basic looks on how to tell if those were real. If I did not access to one I would definitely feel better about purchasing stuff from someone who did and verified the goods before selling them. It should be very fascinating to see how much counterfeit stuff is out there once these get shipped to all the members here and on BS. I think I have gotten pretty good at knowing what is real by experience but there has been a few items I have which I have a slight amount of doubt about. These really should boost confidence across the board for metal enthusiasts/investors!

[Gamecock]

If I don't trust a seller to sell me legit stuff, why would I trust a verifier to verify it for me? Unless the verifier was someone I knew personally and could trust. How do we know the verifiers aren't lying just like the sellers? What if a liar sells you some fake stuff, then you get it verified by a lying verifier and take a double hit?

[blackrabbit]

People make mistakes and even experienced people that you trust can be fooled. This adds more certainty to what seems legitimate. There are many people on the boards who I trust not to rip me off, but even those I trust are good people and would not purposefully sell a fake item can be fooled by others selling a well made counterfeit. You can't fool a machine like this unless the real metal is layered extremely thickly over a base metal which is prohibitively expensive to do for counterfeiters.

[68Camaro]

My stack by and large is what it is. This came too late for me. While it is not the complete end of my stacking the immediate future is focused on finishing non-PM preps, and the bulk of my remaining buying will be from a limited number of super trusted buyers and/or the OEMs themselves. Will I be willing to pay a slight premium from a trusted source if the untrusted competition is cheaper - sure. But generally I am already doing that. I think the benefit will come from the wholesalers who can buy cheap but verify it - then flip at a higher price that can include that the item passed the verifer.

[68Camaro]

Just fyi I voted 2/5 with the added expectation that these verifiers will eventually come way down in price - half or less than current prices. So I don't rule out eventually getting one for myself so I can verify what I have before I trade/sell.

[beauanderos]

Usually, when new "in-demand" items are marketed they target the high-end buyers first. When that niche is spent out, then the price will
be lowered to pick up sales from people who weren't willing to spend as much, or a cheaper model will be produced. Finally, after many months,
the lowest price offering will be introduced. Same format with X-box, Ipod, Iphones, etc.

[baggerman]

If I don't trust a seller to sell me legit stuff, why would I trust a verifier to verify it for me? Unless the verifier was someone I knew personally and could trust. How do we know the verifiers aren't lying just like the sellers? What if a liar sells you some fake stuff, then you get it verified by a lying verifier and take a double hit?

The Verifier is an electronic piece of equipment that is used to verify a fake or genuine piece. There are some folks who are very experienced with PMs and have taken some pretty good hits.

[Recyclersteve]

One thing that wasn't mentioned is that silver coins which are raw (dimes, quarters and halves from the U.S.) can be verified with a simple drop test. Take a non-silver coin of the same denomination and drop it on a table from about 3-4 inches above the surface. The silver coin will have a distinct high pitch sound that should be virtually impossible to duplicate. I don't know what to do with American Eagles, since I don't have one made out of base metal to compare. Gold coins should be certified or more rigorously tested.

[68Camaro]

Usually, when new "in-demand" items are marketed they target the high-end buyers first. When that niche is spent out, then the price will
be lowered to pick up sales from people who weren't willing to spend as much, or a cheaper model will be produced. Finally, after many months,
the lowest price offering will be introduced. Same format with X-box, Ipod, Iphones, etc.

Yup...

[reddirtcoins]

I just got it for the fun of it....

[IdahoCopper]

I saw the group buy and looked for a link for data and info about the device. I did not see a link, so I assumed the device doesn't exist.

[Verbane]

I saw the group buy and looked for a link for data and info about the device. I did not see a link, so I assumed the device doesn't exist.

http://www.sigmametalytics.com/purchase.html

[neilgin1]

I only buy US 90% and 40% silver coinage in the $5 to 10 FV rolls, which I glass every single coin when I get it. I have rolls of ASE's, that I glass, and am 100% confident they are .999 Ag.

The latest ASE rolls I bought have been NGC slabbed "Gem Uncrc rolls of 20.

I don't buy rounds or ingots, only US coins, as currency insurance, hard money.

[Morsecode]

I'm with Neil, and voted #4. I trust my ability to tell a fake Roosevelt dime from the real deal...if there even is such a thing as a fake dime. Or rather enough of them to really worry about.

[Diggin4copper]

I'm with Neil, and voted #4. I trust my ability to tell a fake Roosevelt dime from the real deal...if there even is such a thing as a fake dime. Or rather enough of them to really worry about.

I thought Nate ordered some from China to look at.. maybe he can tell if they ring differently

[coppernickel]

Last in first out. I trust those items I held the longest. Plan to keep them the longest.

[Verbane]

About 80% of my buying and selling is local, with the rest split between RC, BS, and ebay. I'm looking forward to having a nondestructive method to help verify less common bullion or Numi items. Between working the auction house, assisting two LCS, and chasing my own deals, I'm starting to see more questionable stuff than ever before.