Beware of "hsturn" on Ebay.

[neilgin1]

You gentleman were RIGHT about Ebay.

No....I didn't get any chi-com fugazi's, i'm dumb, but not that dumb....no, something a tad more insidious.

Mostly I stack for intrinsic value of Ag, as insurance against paper money.....not so much numismatic, However, in late 2015, since I have raw rolls UNC's, I thought, "why not" go thru the stack, check the PCGS trading, and if I feel I got some "high value" numi's, send them in, to be graded, slabbed, and traded?.....why not?...

so I spent the $14.95 a month to join PCGS's "coin facts"....great website, always you to see not only the market, but to focus in tight on the coins they grade in all grades, and I spent a long time, just to get my "eye" up to snuff.(lol)

Then I joined the PCGS for a year, and received 4 "comp" gradings.

Spent a LOT of time in the stack, glassing coins, and I had bought in June 2011, two raw rolls of Morgans from "hsturn", that were posted as "CH GEM/BU's"...a roll of 82-O's and a roll of 89-P's. (hsturn has been selling mega amounts of raw Morgan and Walking Lib halves, in the 1940's solid date period....ALL of them, of course, termed "CH-GEM/BU's", and this was mid 2011, Ag was screaming higher, up to that $50 mark....and in his "defense" he does have a liberal return policy, probably because he KNOWS he's misadvertising, because he's a liar and a man of no honor)......so I paid up, no problem. I been trading since I was 22, (56 yo now), traded many many cars of pork, grain, etc....in the pits, spread trader I've always been, and say, when I bid July bellies $2 over selling July Hogs, and a guy hit me, said "sold!"....we didn't have lawyers in the pit...I knew that trade was good and would be honored by the other pit trader, and most of time, they'd go to the good, and the times, the trade would go to the bad, I wouldn't NEVER whine or moan, you just take your loss, and hopefully have the sense to take it quick.

Back to the Morgans from "hsturn" on Ebay....when I got the rolls, I weighed them all, checked them, they were 90%'ers, and then into the safe.....but now, i'm glassing them, I select, after hours of careful glassing (or so I thought) I chose 3 1882-O's, and an 1889-P....sent them in, stupidly thinking, at worst, they'd come back MS-63 or higher.

well, my grading "eye" wasn't as developed as I thought, because the three 82-O's came back graded at AU-58, 55, and 50, and to add insult to injury, the 89-P was ungraded, but still "certified. so...oh well, I aint moaning or whining, whenever I take a "loss", I regard as a tuition payment...I stopped buying rolls of 90's a while back, I think MAYBE early 15, I bought my last roll of 90's, because my stack was perfectly ample, along with my 40's.....now I stick with Maple Leaf's......the new variety.

and every man here that warned me about Ebay?....you were all right, and I was wrong.....off of Ebay, I got me a good stack of real silver, but not numi's...I learned, and I tell you all, stay away from "hsturn", he is a liar, and a man of no honor.

That's why this country...(and the world) is in the shape its in....many many men, both of high estate and power, and of lower estate, (not here on RC) have become SO BENT, they have lost the imperative, that what makes a man is his honor and his word of honor....it has largely fled this land, and that just breaks my heart. But you know what?......when a fellow is bent and just wrong, cheating, lying, scheming?.......someday, he ALWAYS will have to pay the piper, and that's what we see now in the global economy, every currency, save the dollar (for now) is hitting all time lows....Iceland the lone exception, coz that tribe in 08-09, got real, took their medicine, cod liver oil so to speak, and they put bankers behind bars.......

so I thank you all, and SLIGHTLY off topic, Mike S on his website posted a bit of wisdom to wire your scene down:
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... to-america


and I just saw a powerful film the other day, I highly recommend, its brilliant, "Sicario"....Benecio and Josh Brolin, Emily B are all brilliant, in fact this is Josh Brolin's finest role, he's so darn good, if I was in my 20's, i'd be tempted to join the agency he represents..lol....you guys will enjoy this, Happy New Year, and I pray safety and health for all ya'll and your kin, neil

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

I learned that lesson a long time ago. Just trying to help a fellow stacker.

[silverflake]

Neil, sorry about your grading experience. Like you say, tuition paid, learn form it. Here's my experience with grading:

Late 1990's i bought a handful of "CH GEM BU" Walking Liberty halves (common date) from one of the big dealers who posts monthly ads in, I think it was Coinage magazine. At the same time I bought a "CH GEM BU" Bennington (Vermont) 1927 commemorative half. I was honing my own grading skills with my magnifier using Photograde book and the PCGS guide to grading (their own grading standards). Went through my halves and picked out 3 after micro-assessing that were, in my opinion, absolute beauties. I pegged 2 of them at MS-65 and one at AT LEAST MS-65 - this one was awesome looking with some rainbow toning etc. The Vermont half was a blazer too! For the life of me, I could find only 2 minor bag marks on the surface with my magnifier. Blazing white, sweet coin (in my opinion). SO....I too, join the PCGS club and get the 4 "free" gradings. I send in my 3 Walkers and 1 Vermont half. They finally come back and the 3 Walkers are all graded MS-64 identical. NO WAY! At the bare minimum, if the 2 lesser coins (my opinion) were MS-64 then that one true gem had to be MS-65. Frustrating. But here's the real kicker. The Vermont half wasn't graded. They returned it in a 'body bag' saying it was cleaned! Obviously my grading skills were lacking, though to this day I still can't see how they figured it was cleaned. I have seen thousands of coins that were cleaned. It's generally pretty clear to a coin guy that a silver coin has been cleaned. Blah....whatever. To the guy who sold me the CH GEM BU Walkers, I say thank you because at the bare minimum, MS-64 falls in the category. But to the Coin dealer who sold me a cleaned Vermont half as CH GEM BU, I guess his grading skills were equal to mine.

I swear that sending stuff into PCGS is like playing the lottery. I sent a $10 Liberty head gold eagle in one time and I was thinking MS-63, maybe 64 (I basically just wanted the coin housed correctly - poor reasoning I know) and it came back MS-61. I didn't even know there was a "MS-61". I now stick to bullion.

Buyer beware. Grader beware. And keep stacking.

[neilgin1]

thanks guys....i'm not even thinking about slabbing anymore.....and check this out, here's what "hsturn" had the gall to send me, after my letter:

"we do stand behind our coins and would buy them back at the current market price based on what they are currently selling in our auctions.. Roger


- hsturn"

I mean this guy must think I got the letters M-O-R-O-N stamped on my forehead....I mean I don't even want to write him back, coz i'm scared of what I would write back.....he should of just ignored me......"we stand behind our coins"..........oh man.....I gotta walk away and not write anything more....just plead the fifth. my core reactor might have to be scramed.........check out these global markets......stack some man cash at home brothers.

[Thogey]

As an e-bay power seller with 1049/100 I have to reply.

Sorry Neil you are going to hate me but, The truth is you bought a pig in a poke and you should have known that. What is " GEM/BU"? It is a very subjective description. Did the seller guarantee they would grade out? You even thought they were better than they were when you sent them in.

Why would a coin dealer sell raw high grade dollars on e-bay, by the roll? Were they advertised as Mint State?

Your expectations were based on your expectations. I don't see the deception. You thought they were pretty or you would not have sent them in

I don't think he deserves being crapped on, based on the experience you wrote about. This is why small print was invented.

[neilgin1]

As an e-bay power seller with 1049/100 I have to reply.

Sorry Neil you are going to hate me but, The truth is you bought a pig in a poke and you should have known that. What is " GEM/BU"? It is a very subjective description. Did the seller guarantee they would grade out? You even thought they were better than they were when you sent them in.

Why would a coin dealer sell raw high grade dollars on e-bay, by the roll? Were they advertised as Mint State?

Your expectations were based on your expectations. I don't see the deception. You thought they were pretty or you would not have sent them in

I don't think he deserves being crapped on, based on the experience you wrote about. This is why small print was invented.

doesn't "BU" mean "Brilliant Uncirculated"?.......and why would I "hate" you? I don't hate ANY son of man....Word says, if you SAY "you love God", but hate man, you are a liar, and the truth does not live in you.

now, me "crap" on him?.....in my world, "crapping" on him, would be him winding up in my trunk, all I did was copy our original receipt from 6/2011, tell him I had them slabbed, they turned out as AU, and with one "cleaned"....didn't say that in the "fine print", and then I told him he was a liar and a man of no honor......and guess what, after this clusterf#ck, I googled him, got hits on MANY coin forums about this lying dog, guys testifying to the very thing I said.