No Silver Manipulation

[68Camaro]

I stopped replying to JFF threads, or posts, but I guess the deed is done so it's no longer his thread. The one consistent element about Jon, regardless of whether or not his technical content was valid, is his ability to incite riot in the general population.

[ThePowersThatBe]

I understand some may be upset at Jonflyfish's removal. As long-time members you will recognize how rarely we suspend or ban members. I have been part of this forum in one capacity or another for more than 5 years and I think we have only had to take action against 5-6 accounts total in that time, some of which were the same person rejoining multiple times. It is not something we take lightly.

I exchanged private messages with JFF during the last couple of flare-ups here. I asked him to refrain from personal insults and attacks and to stick to discussing the merits of the market. He responded by accusing me personally, as well as the forum entity as a whole, of persecuting him because his views were different than most others. It was not unlike somebody playing the "race card" in response to a legitimate challenge to their position instead of logically debating the topic at hand. JFF's messages were condescending and mean-spirited, even more so than his public posts, and he made it clear he was unwilling to adjust his social manners. Even so, no action was taken against him either time. This thread, which once again quickly degraded from a healthy discussion to JFF picking fights, was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

[ThePowersThatBe]

I should also note that I have received complaints about JFF from numerous members over the past six months or so, standard members and moderators alike, concerning both his public posts and communication through private messages. Some of the messages I was forwarded bordered on intimidation and veiled threats. Again Jon was warned of the issue but refused to concede to any wrongdoing. This was not a case of being banned for issues in one single controversial thread, this is something that has been building for a long time.

[Treetop]

Perhaps not my place, but that rarely stops me... LOL...

I was watching the thread pretty close. If any posts were deleted as jff claimed, I sure didnt see them. I can respect just about any belief system or mistakes, but not fond of outright dishonesty.

[johnbrickner]

Jon . . . Consider your forced hiatus an opportunity to hone your social skills, and maybe someday you can return. Or go troll elsewhere if you choose. Makes no difference to me, it is what it is.

Cheers!

. . .

Yours is the last post on realcent I will read. Farewell to all.

Two more down, how many more to go?

Now maybe if my interest in this forum was strictly just to deal and sell PMs to make money, or if I were paper trader where I made so much money I just didn't care, or if I were completely set in my ways, this kind of stuff wouldn't bother me. But for some reason, I find myself (and perhaps you do too) rather enjoying the virtual company of those who tend to be a bit like-minded, who (unlike the rest of humanity) don't piss me off with their ignorance and everyday behavior lack-of-awareness and who are different enough thinkers to show me the opposite side of the coin on any give issue.

~sigh~

Every time we lose diversity of our membership, our forum becomes more narrow in it's collective thoughts. And narrow-mindedness either individually or collectively is not a good thing. Something to think about.

[68Camaro]

I understand your point - diversity = good.

However, troll = bad.

There is a difference, and there are trolls that incorporate elements of truth into their posts to find sympathy with part of a community - these are the worst because they split a community.

Jon was a bit unusual in that he did have an interesting viewpoint that appeared to make sense for trader/flippers (even if I could never fully understand the details of the techniques behind it - so what do you do with that). But he was one of the worst communicators of technical information I've ever seen for someone that was relatively skilled at writing, which led me to believe he was being deliberately obscure in order to elevate himself. So when others would call him on points that didn't seem to make sense he would then consistently devolve into a troll and write long elaborate and equally obscure defenses and counter-attacks. Bottom line he is a pot-stirrer who delights in pot-stirring, which isn't good for any community. By another name, a troll.

Again, diversity = good. Trouble-makers, not.

[slickeast]

The only thing that I can say about JFF is that he taught me some new words. ( After I looked up their meanings)

[johnbrickner]

68Camero:

No argument here from me regarding trouble-makers. There are (no doubt) several on our Forum very glad to see Jon go. Certainly there was no shortage of those who would take his "Troll" bait and run the stream with it.

I continue to believe everyone here has something to contribute. Perhaps I am to tolerant to the differences between us or maybe because I see so much BS in my life outside of this forum it makes it easy to ignore the manure being slung about.

Regardless, my implied was we have lost many recently and it seems a short time to me. Most seem to have done so disgruntled. The loss as I see it is I notice the missing personalities and character they gave this forum. Much like missing colors in a spectrum. It makes the total seem less complete. Call me a sentimental sap, that's how I see this world thru my eyes. Having shinnosuke leave I consider a major loss.

[InfleXion]

There is most certainly proof of manipulation. Andrew Maguire's timestamped e-mails to the CFTC detailing the moves before they happened are in the public domain. If truth is determined by government agencies then we are truly living in a brave new world.

[InfleXion]

Yours is the last post on realcent I will read. Farewell to all.

Just in case you are peeking here, there's no shame in coming back Shin!

[johnbrickner]

. . . If truth is determined by government agencies then we are truly living in a brave new world.

Forgive the thread hijack but,

Orwell, Lewis, Huxley.

1984, It Can't Happen Here, Brave New World, written between 1949 and 1931 are now 64 and 82 years ago. These guys are prophets and gurus of our time.

Who are the prophets and gurus of our grandchildren's time? I hope you all read to your kids and their kids.

[Verbane]

I stopped replying to JFF threads, or posts, but I guess the deed is done so it's no longer his thread. The one consistent element about Jon, regardless of whether or not his technical content was valid, is his ability to incite riot in the general population.

Actually... JFF used to post about copper cent sorting, prepping, his family and the general BS we all tend to discuss. The JFF from Old RC was completely different from the JFF on RC.org. I assume he made a decision to reduce his cyber-footprint and be a [kittenfluffer] while doing it.

[TwoPenniesEarned]

I saw a healthy conversation on silver price devolve into petty arguing and now JFF is banned, after saying his posts were being deleted? WTF.

For the record I agree for the most part with JFF. The market price is what the sellers will accept. If there is manipulation, it can only be transient and always in relation to what real sellers will ultimately sell for.

So we shouldn't always complain about manipulation when the price goes down and crow about it correcting to its "real value" when it goes up.

I personally thing the PM's are undervalued, BTW. Buy why complain about it? Just buy what you can and thank god for the continuing opportunity to do so, if indeed the market is as precarious and manipulated as we believe it is...

[Engineer]

I saw a healthy conversation on silver price devolve into petty arguing and now JFF is banned, after saying his posts were being deleted? WTF.

If you do a search for his posts with a keyword like banned or troll, you'll see a pattern of abrasive behavior dating back years. You'll also see that he was fond of playing the victim card and called for trolls to be banned.

IMHO, he got what he asked for...

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Regardless, my implied was we have lost many recently and it seems a short time to me. Most seem to have done so disgruntled. The loss as I see it is I notice the missing personalities and character they gave this forum. Much like missing colors in a spectrum. It makes the total seem less complete. Call me a sentimental sap, that's how I see this world thru my eyes. Having shinnosuke leave I consider a major loss.

+1, Pard, +1

[dannan14]

Who are the prophets and gurus of our grandchildren's time? I hope you all read to your kids and their kids.

Have you ever seen "Idiocracy" or read "Snow Crash"? Mike Judge and Neal Stephenson just might be two good candidates.

[InfleXion]

I saw a healthy conversation on silver price devolve into petty arguing and now JFF is banned, after saying his posts were being deleted? WTF.

If you do a search for his posts with a keyword like banned or troll, you'll see a pattern of abrasive behavior dating back years. You'll also see that he was fond of playing the victim card and called for trolls to be banned.

IMHO, he got what he asked for...

JFF has a long history of baiting people, both on here and Kitco. I'm not saying I agree with the ban, but it's certainly not as cut and dry as looking at one thread. He has an agenda and has been clever enough about it to fly under the radar to the undiscerning eye.

[Thogey]

Here it is.