This might make you SERIOUSLY RECONSIDER 'BITCOINS'

[hobo finds]

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/innovation/ ... ns-n100761

Any parties that accept bitcoins must first sell the virtual currency and convert it to U.S. dollars before spending it.

[hobo finds]

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/f ... id-n143091

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

My take...

Anything that can be created with a keystroke, can be deleted with a keystroke.

Bitcoin mania was a phenomenon of 2013, just like Beanie Babies were in the 90's and Pet Rocks in the 70's. The bitcoin bubble has popped and the mania is over. 95% of the public do not know/care what a bitcoin is and they most likely never will.

Many people involved in bitcoin are/were trying to capitalize on a "get rich quick" scheme and "greater fool" principle. I imagine some did get rich by capitalizing on the mania... buying low and selling at/near the peak.

This thread does not belong in a silver/gold/copper forum. There are 100's of bitcoin forums/blogs on the internet... go post/pump bitcoins over there.

[TwoPenniesEarned]

My take...

Anything that can be created with a keystroke, can be deleted with a keystroke.

Bitcoin mania was a phenomenon of 2013, just like Beanie Babies were in the 90's and Pet Rocks in the 70's. The bitcoin bubble has popped and the mania is over. 95% of the public do not know/care what a bitcoin is and they most likely never will.

Many people involved in bitcoin are/were trying to capitalize on a "get rich quick" scheme and "greater fool" principle. I imagine some did get rich by capitalizing on the mania... buying low and selling at/near the peak.

This thread does not belong in a silver/gold/copper forum. There are 100's of bitcoin forums/blogs on the internet... go post/pump bitcoins over there.

They have their place. And yes, they can be deleted by a keystroke. But this would be akin to throwing gold overboard on a boat. Doing these things requires similar levels of stupidity and/or intent. We discuss fiat currencies often enough, and many of us believe in gold and silver as assets because they are tangible. While Bitcoins are only backed by wasted CPU cycles, at least they can not be printed from nothing. Does this not make them better than Federal Reserve Notes? Bitcoins represent a very good, portable, anonymous alternative to paper money and that is why they are still around. I wouldn't keep them as a long term asset class myself, but would be very tempted to use them to move assets between countries. Buy Bitcoins in country A, sell them in country B. They can't be found by the fellows that governments have hired in both of those countries to fondle your genitalia and look inside your anus, etc.

Leaving is something which will grow increasingly difficult to do using official currencies, which are all being locked down so they can be fed upon by our profligate governments.

As long as governments are profligate and eating us alive, Bitcoins and the like will steadily increase in popularity. So if you don't like Bitcoins, get to work on electing a bunch more TEA Partiers

As a last side-note on the Anus-looker-inners that we put up with at the Airport, isn't it ironic that the same government paying for that "service" also opened the border wide open and is allowing the dregs of South America to just pour in unchecked? We live in such a messed up world.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

I never said I don't like the idea, but cryptos have many flaws.

All digital crypto currencies are trackable, traceable and hackable... doesn't matter what story they try to sell you. I'd rather use paper currency, at least they're still anonymous and still usable when electricity is not available.

Oh, and I never voted for any politician, not ever.

[TwoPenniesEarned]

I have spoken with many programmers regarding bitcoin and the code itself is not capeable of being "hacked". In the case of Mt.Gox. it was the exchange that was hacked. A bitcoin has the exact same vulnerabilities as cash. If you leave your key in the open, and someone steals that, it would be the equivalent of leaving a bundle of hundreds on your front porch and having that stolen.

If you don't intimately understand how to secure a bitcoin or how to anonymously use one, then perhaps it's not the best option for you. But there are certainly ways of doing both.

I agree with you regarding paper cash, by the way. It just doesn't travel well

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

There are many instances over the past couple years where bitcoins were stolen/hacked, not just the Mt Gox robbery.

The 2013 bubble has popped and interest in bitcoin has waned considerably (largely because the "get rich quick" period as passed). Since the 50% drop from the $1200 area, bitcoin articles have all but vanished from the media.

Paper is 100% anonymous and it does travel well. First you need to covert it into jewelry or stamps, then back to currency again once you reach your final destination.

It amusing how bitcoin devotees always throw out the "you don't understand it" meme to plead their case and/or discredit someone who points out it faults and foibles. All I need to understand is that bitcoin is digital currency that has been hacked and stolen just like anything else. The worse thing about it is that it can be digitally tracked and traced. This will only get worse as technology becomes more advanced and pervasive.

Now, enough of this bitcoin talk. Much more important things to discuss like the real, shiny, tangible asset with a 5000+ year track record of being money/wealth.

[TwoPenniesEarned]

bitcoin devotees always throw out the "you don't understand it" meme

I am not a devotee. I threw out "you don't understand it" because you legitimately do not seem to understand the technology. It is OK to not like bitcoins. I don't like them myself either...although my dislike is a function of their current price. I consider a bitcoin to be worth about the same as an ounce or two of silver. But obviously the market has priced the portability and anonymity of the asset as being worth many times the price of an ounce of silver. I don't get that and thus don't buy bitcoins.

To say that you can not complete an anonymous transaction with bitcoin or to say that if someone finds your bitcoin they can "hack" it or break the encryption and turn it into something useful for themselves without you giving them the key, is patently false. So if you don't like the "don't understand it" meme, don't throw out misnomers which imply that you don't understand it. Or are you saying that "they" have successfully developed quantum decryption? Because that is the only way you could break the encryption on a bitcoin today.

Paper is 100% anonymous and it does travel well. First you need to covert it into jewelry or stamps, then back to currency again once you reach your final destination.

Where do you convert in and out? I find that retail shops that deal in "used" jewelry wish to buy at 40-50% below melt and sell at 100-200% above. Interesting regarding stamps. I hadn't considered stamps.

[barrytrot]

Cu Penny Hoarder, why so ardent in your hatred of Bitcoins?

They are still in the $500ish range, so apparently the "bubble" you speak of hasn't quite popped yet

Other "bubbles" have gone from $100's down to cents, not so in this case. Other than a brief spike above $1,000 for a few days, they have ranged in the hundreds for quite some time. I would say that they are likely a more stable currency than 90% of the FIAT out there!

So either their bubble popping is yet to come or they are here to stay, at least for the short term.

Also: I don't need hard-wired electricity to use Bitcoins as my cell phone can also access them and has a store of electricity. So they are readily available all day every day.


I am also interested in stamps that actually have hard value. I've never heard of them being used as a method of temporary wealth transport.

[Engineer]

Does anyone know the current cost to mine a bit coin? It seems like that should set a price floor.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Cu Penny Hoarder, why so ardent in your hatred of Bitcoins?

They are still in the $500ish range, so apparently the "bubble" you speak of hasn't quite popped yet

Other "bubbles" have gone from $100's down to cents, not so in this case. Other than a brief spike above $1,000 for a few days, they have ranged in the hundreds for quite some time. I would say that they are likely a more stable currency than 90% of the FIAT out there!

So either their bubble popping is yet to come or they are here to stay, at least for the short term.

Also: I don't need hard-wired electricity to use Bitcoins as my cell phone can also access them and has a store of electricity. So they are readily available all day every day.

I am also interested in stamps that actually have hard value. I've never heard of them being used as a method of temporary wealth transport.

First of all, I don't "hate" anything or anyone.

There are way too many flaws with bitcoin. Here are some of my main concerns:

1. No tangible or intrinsic value. People are trying to create something from nothing.
2. Who created bitcoin?... where did it come from?... Satoshi who?... the government?... the CIA? Nobody really knows for sure.
3. A handful of wealthy individuals own the majority of bitcoins. That sure seems like a Ponzi to me.
4. They can be traced and tracked.
5. They can be stolen/hacked. This has happened several times already.
6. 100% dependent on electricity. No electricity, no bitcoin. Maybe someday someone will make a bitcoin that has solar panels.

Rare stamps can be placed between the pages of any book and transported basically anywhere... no x-ray machine can detect them. Same goes for 1/10 gold coins, if you carry them loosely... they appear as dimes on an x-ray scanner... I've done this many times.

[barrytrot]

All reasonable issues for you to choose to avoid them.

But nothing you mentioned is substantially worse than FIAT other than reliance on electricity which while not unlimited has tended toward "available" for quite some time and barring global collapse which would render all FIAT worthless as well I don't have a fear of electricity being unavailable.

Additionally, there are significant advantages Bitcoins hold over FIAT. So don't be surprised if others continue to use them for a long time. I am of the opinion that Bitcoins will be around for longer than the current incarnation of the USD.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

All reasonable issues for you to choose to avoid them.

But nothing you mentioned is substantially worse than FIAT other than reliance on electricity which while not unlimited has tended toward "available" for quite some time and barring global collapse which would render all FIAT worthless as well I don't have a fear of electricity being unavailable.

Additionally, there are significant advantages Bitcoins hold over FIAT. So don't be surprised if others continue to use them for a long time. I am of the opinion that Bitcoins will be around for longer than the current incarnation of the USD.

As I've stated, FRNs are the preferable form of FIAT (for me) because it is still 100% anonymous. That is the number one reason for me to stick with the green rectangles.

I have found that most people that are pushing/pumping bitcoin have a vested interest in it. It has more to do with personal profits rather than liberty, freedom and sound money. I find it very interesting that the OP of this thread has not posted here since 2011. My guess is, he already took the FIAT money profits and ran.

The jury is still out on whether or not bitcoin will be embraced by the general public. I do not think the average joe-six-pack will ever care about bitcoin unless they are forced into it, and they might be. The TPTB want a one world digital currency that can be fully controlled/traced... bitcoin fits the bill perfectly. If devotees wish to believe that bitcoin is 100% private and secure, my response to that is... caveat emptor.

[IdahoCopper]

Interesting article:

Bitcoin: Going from Deceptive to Disruptive
http://singularityhub.com/2014/07/03/bitcoin-going-from-deceptive-to-disruptive/

[silverstacker]

The link doesnt seem to come up. It directes me right to Yahoo's homepage. Howeever, I have read a few articles that are very cautious about this new form of money. If you find it again please re-send

[silverstacker]

Interesting article:

Bitcoin: Going from Deceptive to Disruptive
http://singularityhub.com/2014/07/03/bitcoin-going-from-deceptive-to-disruptive/

Thanks for the read.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Interesting article:

Bitcoin: Going from Deceptive to Disruptive
http://singularityhub.com/2014/07/03/bitcoin-going-from-deceptive-to-disruptive/

Oh my, bitcoin is just so disruptive Just another propaganda/pump piece written by someone with a vested interest.

95% of people out there will never know what a bitcoin is, nor will they care.

The bubble has popped. Some get rich quick hopefuls remain, but it's all over for the most part.

[IdahoCopper]

Interesting article:

Bitcoin: Going from Deceptive to Disruptive
http://singularityhub.com/2014/07/03/bitcoin-going-from-deceptive-to-disruptive/

Oh my, bitcoin is just so disruptive Just another propaganda/pump piece written by someone with a vested interest.

95% of people out there will never know what a bitcoin is, nor will they care.

The bubble has popped. Some get rich quick hopefuls remain, but it's all over for the most part.

We will see how your prediction holds up after the "easy wallet" is invented and distributed.

[barrytrot]

The one thing I don't get is how you can say "the bubble has popped" when Bitcoin has held it's value very well. Throwing out a very brief spike over $1,000 it's been 400 to 800 for a good bit of time.

[InfleXion]

BTC could easily be a solid investment, and superior to metals for as long as fair markets are absent, and so long as there isn't a superior digital currency available to fill its shoes. BTC represents grid dependency and complete lack of anonymity with its historical blockchain. In spite of outward opposition, digital currency is in line with the globalist agenda. It doesn't matter that it may replace the USD, which is already on its way out anyway, because once you are dependent upon services for your money there's no need for debt slavery. Instead it would be the real thing. Metals are freedom. You can't put a price on that.

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Interesting article:

Bitcoin: Going from Deceptive to Disruptive
http://singularityhub.com/2014/07/03/bitcoin-going-from-deceptive-to-disruptive/

Oh my, bitcoin is just so disruptive Just another propaganda/pump piece written by someone with a vested interest.

95% of people out there will never know what a bitcoin is, nor will they care.

The bubble has popped. Some get rich quick hopefuls remain, but it's all over for the most part.

We will see how your prediction holds up after the "easy wallet" is invented and distributed.

I already have a (easy) wallet full of green rectangles. Right now bitcoin serves the same function as Paypal does, nothing more.

Whatever the origin or creator of bitcoin is... it remains FULLY traceable and controllable. It can be hacked/stolen the same as the physical fiatscos in your wallet or your debit card pin number.

I hate having to repeat myself, but no electricity, no bitcoin.

One day this modern day tulip bulb will return to it's intrinsic value... which is zero.

[Treetop]

BTC could easily be a solid investment, and superior to metals for as long as fair markets are absent, and so long as there isn't a superior digital currency available to fill its shoes. BTC represents grid dependency and complete lack of anonymity with its historical blockchain. In spite of outward opposition, digital currency is in line with the globalist agenda. It doesn't matter that it may replace the USD, which is already on its way out anyway, because once you are dependent upon services for your money there's no need for debt slavery. Instead it would be the real thing. Metals are freedom. You can't put a price on that.

Yep, simply tie bitcoin to a name and its the most draconian currency that ever existed. Literally precisely what those who seek to consolidate more power have said they want. Was this a trial run? to get people to beg for the answer they already had waiting for us? who knows. Literally. Which tells us just how speculative bitcoin truly is. Will governments outlaw it in favor of something tied to a name? (you might in theory be able to use BTC if outlawed, but how many here are outlaws?)

The idea this could somehow subvert the current system is naive at best. If that was the case it would simply be outlawed. Governments have outlawed plants and minerals before they can easily outlaw digital currency. Ahh but people still traded those outlaw plants and minerals? yep outlaws did, your average citizen nope.

So at best its a highly speculative market that is likely to see huge changes so it is more in line with current financial powers and goals. It is unregulated as well as a small market so easy to manipulate should the desire arise. Im not sure its a wiser investment then random penny stocks myself. LOL, but Ive been wrong before, hehe.

[IdahoCopper]

Comparing bitcoin, national fiat, and PMs is a lot like comparing apples, oranges, & bananas. Yes, they are all different. Yes, they can all be used in different recipes. And yes, I like to eat apples, oranges, & bananas. The world does not require me to choose only one fruit, nor does it require me to use only one medium of exchange.

[hobo finds]

IRS says Property not Currancy

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/bus ... y/6873569/

[stlouiscoin]

I've been following this thread for a while now, and figured I'd throw in my .02. I do mine litecoin and darkcoin, the 2nd and 3rd highest value crypto currencies.

A couple misnomers:
-bitcoin is hackable- if by bitcoin you mean the wallets, sure, you just need to guess the username, password, and encryption key unique to each acct. lets say each username is 15 characters/numbers(36 to the 15th), password is 10 characters/letters(36 to the 10th), and each encryption key is a mix of exactly 25 upper and lowercase letters, and numbers(52 to the 25th). multiply those sets together and you get a one in 6.42E87th, or 642 with 87 zeros behind it, chance of hacking any one acct. Now if you are referring to the actual block chain being hackable, you are downright wrong. there is no astronomical chance of hacking it, it is not possible, plain and simple.
-there is no value to bitcoin- correct.it technically doesn't exist. It's value is directly assigned by what we think it should be. But so is fiat, it's a piece of paper after all.

I'm more than happy to discuss btc, and the mining software and hardware involved with it.