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tdtwedt wrote:$0.29 over spot at Provident for quarters

https://www.providentmetals.com/90-silv ... value.html

So much for anyone who was saying we'd never see the 29 cent over spot level again! This reminds me a bit of car dealerships or mattress retailers advertising that this is their "best sale ever". Whose gonna fall for that? I guess someone who is gullible might. No offense to the gullible.

Recyclersteve wrote:

tdtwedt wrote:$0.29 over spot at Provident for quarters

https://www.providentmetals.com/90-silv ... value.html

So much for anyone who was saying we'd never see the 29 cent over spot level again! This reminds me a bit of car dealerships or mattress retailers advertising that this is their "best sale ever". Whose gonna fall for that? I guess someone who is gullible might. No offense to the gullible.

Oh no... so now I'm gullible, used car salesmen? You just brought yourself down here bud.

I've been in this game for many years. I've seen the tops and bottoms. We are still at the bottom. This is a fantastic opportunity for those with discretionary cash and lots of patience (seems like most here do not have it).

Silver is one of most undervalued assets on the planet. These 0.29 over spot sales do not last long. Be gullible as hell and GET SOME!

No offense intended. I've been accused of being gullible too. Not as much recently as I was when I was younger. I guess I'm just more of skeptical, prove it to me type person. You'd think I'd be from the Show Me state (Missouri), but I'm not.

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Silver is one of most undervalued assets on the planet.

Why do you think the above is true?

Thogey wrote:

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Silver is one of most undervalued assets on the planet.

Why do you think the above is true?

I would think most members here would already understand this. Here is a chart that most people should be able to grasp. I could list the many industrial uses of/for silver, but that would take too long.

It could take a few more years for PM's to really pop, but if you have the time to wait... so what? NO ONE can predict precise price movements at exact moments. People who are complaining about how long it's taking for prices to rise substantially probably should've never bought PM's in the first place.

Thanks for the chart and I was aware of it. What I'm getting at is, why do you think it is undervalued? Are we experiencing a temporary demand shortage? I really don't understand why silver is undervalued.

Seems to me if silver were undervalued there would not be a .29 over spot sale,

That 1980 spike was a manipulation issue.
Silver NEVER had that kind of value.
Everyone seems to like referencing that
when discussing the price silver "should be".
I don't get the correlation??

Thogey wrote:Thanks for the chart and I was aware of it. What I'm getting at is, why do you think it is undervalued? Are we experiencing a temporary demand shortage? I really don't understand why silver is undervalued.

Seems to me if silver were undervalued there would not be a .29 over spot sale,

Lack of demand drives premiums down. Yes, silver is very undervalued when compared to everything else. Even with the recent -20% stock market correction (that has almost recovered because of Fed/China trade jawboning), we are still in the "everything bubble"... everything besides PM's that is.

When investors shun something, that's when you should want it. That's the basic rule of contrary investing.

JP Morgan has accumulated the largest physical silver position in history. Gee, I wonder why?


Here's my question... why would members of a PM investing forum me asking me for answers to questions they should already know?

If you guys want to sell me your "sludge" at current spot price, I'll buy it all right now. PM me.

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Here's my question... why would members of a PM investing forum me asking me for answers to questions they should already know?

Sorry dude. I don't know the answers to any of these questions, and was interested in other opinions. I thought a PM forum was the place to ask.

If you don't want to answer...., then don't. I saw a lot of people borrowing money to buy silver at $30/oz. Saw people bet their dicks it wouldn't drop through 25. Saying it was undervalued. I have silver and was just curious why others do.

I'm with you Thogey, just back track the thread and CU Penny Horder is flaming, and that's just the way it goes out here. I've done it myself too, I'm sure of it, but when you become more aware of it, then you learn that yeah banter is good, keeps the thread going, gives context, it's just a matter of how productive we are behind the keyboard.

My opinion with silver can vary with my mood and time because it's not yielding me anything, now that I have a savings account earning over 2%, a decent spread in investments, I'm glad I'm not all in on anything really, and have reserved my buying over the years, even adding some numismatics vs. .999 or moderns. But, the moderns still got me some, but the .999 is not bad, I evened it out later with 90% when the premiums on those finally came down.

I've often spewed my thoughts about silver, one being the next green revolution when we realize carbon was sequestered for a reason, it kept this place cleaned up made it into this beautiful blue and green planet, pristine air, clean water, rich soil. Now look at it. Maybe one day the masses will collectively look up to the sky and go oh yeah that thing did everything for us already, and what does silver do?, it transfers heat incredibly well, and that's what we need is cheaper heat and energy. Thus solar, and heat transfer, we've come a long way on that to, now they build massive solar farm projects, instead of putting a few panels up in the backyard the roof is covered on buildings all over. It's coming.

Now, we have allot of above ground silver, and it comes out of the ground easier than it ever did, up to a billion ounces a year, even gold they just keep pulling more of it out of the ground every year. Part of me suspects even gold prices we don't really know, central banks are stacking it creating artificial demand. Most of it hoarded. Part of me suspects that if we have the next economic downturn which we may not have to worry about anymore once interest rates hit zero again, for example look at Japan, ZIRP for 20 years and all is good, allot of silver might be coming out for sell so people can buy gas, groceries, etc. and maybe we will get some deals yet. But, who knows about future performance, some say oh we have silver deficit, well then why silver price falling for years..

But, wow, in some circles, I still see allot of physical being soaked up by the whales, especially when we were down to 14 levels, well like the central banks buying gold it's really just a hedge is about it. And, as I have acquired enough silver, hit my goal anyway, I still have my yearly goal that I like to hit. And, I like gold more now too, and numismatics, and look to the other natural resources that are being used up faster, and have more use now and into the near future, like lithium and rare earths.

I also have a decent hoard of CU pennies, and wow I'm getting tired of those, and when they say oh CU will be 60% higher price 5 years from now, I think hmmm, I don't know, those things are just about worthless to me these days, and would like to cash those suckers in and convert those buckets full into one simple one ounce gold coin instead.

Because silver costs less than it used to, does not mean it's undervalued. You can ague it is a good speculation. But, people buy and sell at the spot price. I don't understand why it's undervalued. Milk at the grocery store is undervalued because of milk subsidies. Copper within pennies is undervalued because you cannot melt them and use the copper.

What makes silver undervalued?

Paper silver sells and buys for spot price. Buy and sell spreads with physical are real and vary between the LCS. Milk is cheap too, because it's in glut, because of over production.

Speculators and anyone who say anything is undervalued are what makes anything undervalued. Right now, at this very moment, silver is fairly valued at the going price. It's just metal.

Thogey wrote:Because silver costs less than it used to, does not mean it's undervalued. You can ague it is a good speculation. But, people buy and sell at the spot price. I don't understand why it's undervalued. Milk at the grocery store is undervalued because of milk subsidies. Copper within pennies is undervalued because you cannot melt them and use the copper.

What makes silver undervalued?

I never said silver was undervalued at $30. Lots of sour grapes on here because they bought at $30 (and higher) and they feel robbed, that's quite understandable. As it is with any investment... timing is everything.

I've read through all the threads in this forum it seems like the majority of you invested in PMs to make a quick buck. Nothing wrong with that as long as you get the timing right.

It will be fun to dig this thread up in a few years and re-read it.

So do you think the right price is between here and 30? Dig through the threads over the years and you will see how ridiculous, I thought, that last run up was. although i think i have a $800 roll of phils. This should not be an emotional discussion. Perhaps we do not share the definition on "undervalued"?

If someone had a clever insight as to why silver is undervalued, that would be a good read. Believe me when i say no one could care less how married folks are to their silver, than I do. I want huge success and prosperity for all.

I am a slow buyer at this time. I was a fast seller at $35-25. I was a a heavy buyer at 10-15 and at about 25-30.

If you re-read this thread now it's interesting how a sense of urgency to buy at .29 over spot keeps getting extended.

Thogey wrote:So do you think the right price is between here and 30? Dig through the threads over the years and you will see how ridiculous that last run up was. although i think i have a $800 roll of phils. This should not be an emotional discussion. Perhaps we do not share the definition on "undervalued"?

If someone had a clever insight as to why silver is undervalued, that would be a good read. Believe me when i say no one could care less how married folks are to their silver, than I do. I want huge success and prosperity for all.

I am a slow buyer at this time. I was a fast seller at $35. I was a a heavy buyer at 10-15 and at about 20-25.

If you re-read this thread now it's interesting how a sense of urgency to buy at .29 over spot keeps getting extended.

I'm not emotional at all, especially with investments. No one should be married to any investment. There are cycles in all asset classes. Although I believe you should always hold a minimum 10-20% of your wealth in PMs as inflation protection and insurance. I'm currently at 80% because I sense what's coming.

Nothing wrong with being a short timer. I tend to favor buy and hold... it's a no brainer. I still have 90% junk bags I bought in 1985 for under spot. I sold 2 of them when Ag was near $50. I flipped that profit into a rental property. I'll buy another one after the next run up.

Why are you arguing against buying 90% at $0.29 over spot? It that too high for you? The average premium over spot right now is $0.49-0.69. People should be taking advantage of that while the spot price is still below $16. You are converting worthless paper into a tangible asset. Debating the fair-value price of silver when junk bag premiums are this low is really pointless.

(This could be the 10th time I've said this or something like it) but full disclosure I'm technically underwater in silver. I did fair amount of buying in the 30s and even 40s. Was I disappointed when the market corrected? Yes and no. No because what I was buying was wealth protection and I truly believed (and maintain that this was true) that the world markets were within hours of a full blown meltdown more than once during 2010 - 2011. The yes is obvious, but is tempered by the reason. Did that stop me from buying more at lower prices? Heck no! I'm still surprised it went to the $15 range as long as it has, but I think that is an effective long term floor at this point. I've dollar averaged my overpriced stack down to where a modest long term uptick would make me whole again in silver. And I'm even on gold and ahead in Pd. So I'm not crying. Most importantly I have some hard security - which is just part of my diversified insurance package.

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:
Why are you arguing against buying 90% at $0.29 over spot? It that too high for you? The average premium over spot right now is $0.49-0.69. People should be taking advantage of that while the spot price is still below $16. You are converting worthless paper into a tangible asset. Debating the fair-value price of silver when junk bag premiums are this low is really pointless.

I'm not arguing against anything. When did I ague at all? I might buy some. I bought plenty at 13-14 range and my belly's a bit full. There's silver at spot available here and BS now and than too. .29 above spot is a good deal, it's not like the resurrection of Christ.

All I ask was "why do you think it is undervalued?" I honestly don't have an opinion. I usually sell at spot. Unfortunately, at this point in history, the world runs on worthless paper. So for now I have to play along. That's why I have to make a choice on what to convert my worthless paper into. I am interested in diversity of opinion on this matter.

Thogey wrote:

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:
Why are you arguing against buying 90% at $0.29 over spot? It that too high for you? The average premium over spot right now is $0.49-0.69. People should be taking advantage of that while the spot price is still below $16. You are converting worthless paper into a tangible asset. Debating the fair-value price of silver when junk bag premiums are this low is really pointless.

I'm not arguing against anything. When did I ague at all? I might buy some. I bought plenty at 13-14 range and my belly's a bit full. There's silver at spot available here and BS now and than too. .29 above spot is a good deal, it's not like the resurrection of Christ.

All I ask was [b]"why do you think it is undervalued?" [/b]I honestly don't have an opinion. I usually sell at spot. Unfortunately, at this point in history, the world runs on worthless paper. So for now I have to play along. That's why I have to make a choice on what to convert my worthless paper into. I am interested in diversity of opinion on this matter.

The most comprehensive answer to that question is because... every other asset class is highly overvalued.

Again, timing is everything. When the dumb money starts piling in, that's the time to sell. Some of the topping signs will be:

- "We buy silver/gold" kiosks at the mall
- Increased MSM coverage and magazine covers promoting PMs
- Increase in tv commercials for companies selling PMs
- Co-workers discussing PMs around the lunch room water cooler
- Someone in your family asks you how, or tells you they are buying PMs
- Uber/taxi driver tell you what a great investment PMs are

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:

Thogey wrote:

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:
Why are you arguing against buying 90% at $0.29 over spot? It that too high for you? The average premium over spot right now is $0.49-0.69. People should be taking advantage of that while the spot price is still below $16. You are converting worthless paper into a tangible asset. Debating the fair-value price of silver when junk bag premiums are this low is really pointless.

I'm not arguing against anything. When did I ague at all? I might buy some. I bought plenty at 13-14 range and my belly's a bit full. There's silver at spot available here and BS now and than too. .29 above spot is a good deal, it's not like the resurrection of Christ.

All I ask was [b]"why do you think it is undervalued?" [/b]I honestly don't have an opinion. I usually sell at spot. Unfortunately, at this point in history, the world runs on worthless paper. So for now I have to play along. That's why I have to make a choice on what to convert my worthless paper into. I am interested in diversity of opinion on this matter.

The most comprehensive answer to that question is because... every other asset class is highly overvalued.

Again, timing is everything. When the dumb money starts piling in, that's the time to sell. Some of the topping signs will be:

- "We buy silver/gold" kiosks at the mall
- Increased MSM coverage and magazine covers promoting PMs
- Increase in tv commercials for companies selling PMs
- Co-workers discussing PMs around the lunch room water cooler
- Someone in your family asks you how, or tells you they are buying PMs
- Uber/taxi driver tell you what a great investment PMs are

I'm still not convinced by your analysis.

All of the things you mention are signs of overvaluation or a bubble, but if it's not overvalued then it's either undervalued or properly valued. Sure, in 10 weeks, months, years or decades we can look back at today and say it's undervalued, but some period of time between now and then it's properly valued, right?

it makes little difference to me as long as it doesn't crash. I still buy it from time to time because i'm a hoarder, more or less. I have bought here and on Provident at spot, over the last eighteen months, so $.29 over spot isn't overly exciting.

If it goes higher at some point great, but nobody knows and the lack of participation here for a long time suggests most people think it isn't spiking anytime soon.

Gipper1985 wrote:
I'm still not convinced by your analysis.

All of the things you mention are signs of overvaluation or a bubble, but if it's not overvalued then it's either undervalued or properly valued. Sure, in 10 weeks, months, years or decades we can look back at today and say it's undervalued, but some period of time between now and then it's properly valued, right?

it makes little difference to me as long as it doesn't crash. I still buy it from time to time because i'm a hoarder, more or less. I have bought here and on Provident at spot, over the last eighteen months, so $.29 over spot isn't overly exciting.

If it goes higher at some point great, but nobody knows and the lack of participation here for a long time suggests most people think it isn't spiking anytime soon.

No worries. The main point of this thread was to alert people when deals pop up. If you think silver is a dead-money investment, then don't buy any more.

One way value can be estimated is how much it takes to mine it and refine it. I've read that's somewhere between $12-15. This won't mean jack sheet when the banking system/USD collapses. When compared to inflation (currency devaluation), silver is CHEAP.

BTW, the lack of posts/interest here is a contrary signal.

tdtwedt wrote:$0.29 over spot at Provident for quarters

https://www.providentmetals.com/90-silv ... value.html

Deal still live with spot down.

Squelch the argument over cost to mine silver, this is silver miners only, read instead, draw your own conclusions, debating over it out here is a fools game, I'm guilty party too.

http://www.mining.com/web/silver-miners ... damentals/

everything wrote:Squelch the argument over cost to mine silver, this is silver miners only, read instead, draw your own conclusions, debating over it out here is a fools game, I'm guilty party too.

http://www.mining.com/web/silver-miners ... damentals/

I'm not arguing with anyone, so please squelch that.

Would take 3 days to read that article. How about highlighting the relevant part(s).

Again, if you believe silver is a dead-money investment and will never shine again, then sell all to me. I'll give you current spot price. PM me if interested. So far no one has taken me up on this offer.

Back on sale at Provident for $0.29 over spot...

https://www.providentmetals.com/90-junk ... unces.html

https://www.providentmetals.com/90-silv ... value.html

https://www.providentmetals.com/90-silv ... value.html

everything wrote:Squelch the argument over cost to mine silver, this is silver miners only, read instead, draw your own conclusions, debating over it out here is a fools game, I'm guilty party too.

http://www.mining.com/web/silver-miners ... damentals/

It is a long article.... but there were some interesting things in it.