gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservative?

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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby Kurr » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:03 pm

Liberal and Conservative are subjective terms. To some , I may be a "liberal" and to others I may seem a "conservative" on the same opinion or action, depending on the influences of the one who observes the opinion/action. Due to this I will stay out of that realm and stick to religion. If it is written in the Bible, it is scriptural, if it isn't it's not.

This is from:
http://silverstockreport.com/biblesilvermoney.htm

and it is just the cannon texts, not counting the appocrypha or psuedopigraphiacal texts:




Bible verses on silver, gold, and paper money.


Scriptures supporting gold and silver as money, and against paper money.



Deuteronomy 25:13 Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a small.
14 Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, a great and a small.
15 But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Proverbs 20:10 Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the LORD.


Using honest weights and measures in commerce requires honest money that you can actually weigh and measure. I find it extremely difficult to not have dishonest weights (dollars) in my house or wallet (bag), because merchants put dollar prices on the things they sell, and they don't list the price in silver. But from now on, I'm going to make increasing efforts to buy everything I can with silver. (I have recently paid for an ad in silver, and recently hired a publicity agent with silver.)


Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.


The dollar is a defaulted promise to pay gold. It is evidence of theft that has taken place. If you pay for things in dollars, you (me too) are not only using a false weight and measure, but you (me too) are continuing the theft; both actions being deceived, and deceiving others.


Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


Do you realize what an opportunity we have? Every monetary transaction we make is an opportunity to help spread the truth about money, and our faith. Perhaps I should simply say, "As a Christian, I'm commanded by God to not steal, or use false weights and measures. Therefore, I wanted to give you the opportunity to not be defrauded by paper money. Would you like real silver, instead?"


Luke 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?


The true riches of God may be withheld if we are not being faithful with unrighteous mammon!

The dollar system is a system of debt at interest, or usury. Both the Hebrew scriptures and the Greek condemn usury.


Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:

Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest; for He is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.


God created gold, it belongs to Him.


Genesis 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

Haggai 2:8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.


God created gold and silver for a purpose.


Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


Jesus counsels us to buy gold, the gold he created, His gold, and the reason is given--so that we may be rich. Many people try to "spiritualize" Rev 3:18, so that it has no literal meaning. But the topic of money covers many spiritual principles; and gold and silver fulfill God's principles, and paper money is a rejection of all of God's spiritual principles! How can one spiritually obey Rev 3:18 "to buy of me gold tried in the fire," without first obeying the literal command?

The following are scriptures that Christians often mis-interpret, as if saving gold and silver are bad. (What follows is my clarification.)


1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Some think 1 Timothy 6:10 means that money is the root of all evil, and if gold is money, then gold must be evil. But it is the love, or covetousness, of money that is the root of all evil. Innate objects cannot sin. Only men can sin.


Exodus 20:17 "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's."


The Bible does not condemn money, as "money answereth all things".


Ecclesiastes 10:19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.


Here is another often misunderstood verse:


Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:


Some think Matt 6:19 means that we can't store money for the future. But the condemnation is on storing money for selfish purposes, it says "not for yourselves". There is no condemnation for storing money to further the gospel kingdom. Jesus counsels against storing money in a location where thieves are known to break in and steal--this would include banks, which are institutions of theft. And banks are the thieves, because they only keep a fraction of deposits on hand, as is evidenced when they go bankrupt. Buying gold or silver is a way to store up treasures in heaven, since buying gold is an act of righteousness and obedience, and is a rejection of false weights and measures, and is a rejection of usury.

Here is another often misunderstood verse:


Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


Some think this means that Christians should live in poverty. Not so. There were rich disciples.


Matthew 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:


Christians are called to be able to relieve the poverty of others, and that takes wealth. How can you have extra to give to others, unless you have more than enough for yourself? (2 Corinthians 8 speaks on this, the giving of one's abundance, or surplus.) The whole point of free trade and capitalism is to be able to trade away the surplus of your production. Matt 6:1-4 is about giving alms for the poor. I believe that to "serve mammon, or money" means making money your master instead of making God your master. I believe Matt 6:24 is a condemnation of being in debt. All who are in debt are serving money, to pay the interest.


Proverbs 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

1 Corinthians 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.


Next, the parable of the Talents is often also misunderstood as being "against holding gold".


Matthew 25
The Parable of the Talents
14"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15 To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17 So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18 But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
19 "After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'
21 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
22 "The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'
23 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
24 "Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
26 "His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28 " 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'


Some just think it's wrong to store wealth in the form of gold. However, gold and silver are the only things you can use as money that you can weigh out and measure. An unjust weight and measure, such as the dollar, remains an abomination.

Why is the evil servant evil? First of all, the talent was not his money, it was his master's money! His master was sowing with him, giving him money to be put to use. A "talant" was 66-90 pounds of precious metal. It was a large amount of money. The master, representing Jesus, acted as a capitalist, who was investing his money in the man's ability to invest money. (Like an investor who buys a silver stock fund, that in turn, invests in stocks.) But the evil servant did not respect his master's capitalist ways; and he made a false accusation, he said the master reaped where he did not sow. But the master was sowing into the man, rather than into the ground! So, in a sense, the evil servant valued himself as less than dust, because his false accusation implied that it would be better to sow into the ground than into himself! The capitalist who invests with men is not doing an evil thing as the evil servant accused. The evil servant represents a man who despises capitalism, the foundation of which is private property. He despised his master's property, and he was covetous of his master's potential gain. But meanwhile, as one of his master's servants, he was consuming some of his master's property, just to live! He didn't want to work for anyone else's benefit, but felt no guilt about taking benefits from others. But all work, to be profitable, must be to the benefit of other men!

So, the story does not condemn storing gold, the story is an overwhelming support of the entire capitalist system!

Some people think the parable means it's ok to put money in the banks to get interest. But the parable does not teach that. The parable is showing that even putting money in the bank to get interest (an evil action) would have been better than entrusting money to the evil servant, who is like a covetous communist. Jesus often makes comparisons among sins to showcase the greater evil. For example, Jesus said to some:


Matthew 21:31 ...Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.


In that example, Jesus was not saying that harlotry is not a sin. Harlotry is a sin. Likewise, Jesus was not saying that loaning money at usury is not a sin. Usury remains a sin.

The parable of the talents teaches us the importance of obeying our master (our Lord Jesus Christ), and the importance of making wise investments. Sometimes, investing in silver is the best investment.


Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;


Investing in silver, as opposed to bonds, is being obedient to the commands to avoid false weights and measures, and to avoid usury.

Some think the Bible condemns rich men. Not so.


Mark 10: 23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!


Some think the rich cannot enter the kingdom of God. Not so. It is more difficult, because the rich tend to put their trust in riches, instead of trusting in God, and are often not kind to the poor. In fact, again, there are rich men in the true Church, for whom there is specific advice:


1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.


I know my many readers can see that I'm following 1 Timothy 6:18, because I distribute information, and communicate! And I do trust in God, and not my riches, because I know that many gold and silver investors, or potential investors, are scared to death about government confiscation. I know it's a possibility, but God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of boldness for the faith and for truth! In fact, I'm a rather public advocate of holding physical silver. If they are going to confiscate people's silver, they should start with me. So let my boldness help to make you bold.

---------------------------------------------
The above was an excerpt from my weekly silver stock report #48. Click the link to read it.

See also my web site: silverstockreport.com

Here are a few important essays I've written:

The Great Harlot of Rev 17-18 is Jerusalem, & what that means. 10-4-02

Gold and Silver in Bible Prophecy 12-15-01

18 Biblical Guidelines for Managing your Money March, 2004

I'm Insanely Bullish On Silver - 19 June 2004

Major Frauds of the U.S. Monetary System - 26 February 2004 HOT!!

Freedom from Usury - 23 January 2004
Usury Enslaves - 19 January 2004

The Moral Failures of the Paper Longs - 22 January 2003

Refuting Myths about Gold - 28 October 2002

See also my prophecy website:

http://www.bibleprophesy.org/

*************************************************************

I think they go together nicely. :D
Last edited by Kurr on Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE ... UBLICS.pdf
Good reading: Frederic Bastiat "The Law" http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html

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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby WizardTN » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:04 pm

Oh by no means am I about to rely on any govt. run program to do anything but go downhill in the long run.

Before I retired I pulled in my horns and sold off and eliminated any and all debt or obligations of any kind. Basically cashed out, downsized myself, and retrenched. I own my place and the 1 acre it sits on. I have to pay taxes, utilities and feed myself.
I set up my needs/budget to live well within the pittance in SSI I get, to the point that I have about $500/mo to play with. That money goes for metals, long term food storage and other "preparedness" items.
I learned a long time ago not to depend on anyone else to be there when I need them.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby frugalcanuck » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:26 pm

Great thread

Gold and silver collecting go with preparedness and there are some religions that encourage preparedness.
I am not religious or conservarive and I am into metals as a form of wealth preservation.

I also believe there is a push to seperate people into liberal or conservative sides.

I know conservatives (one of them was a teacher in my high school when I was there years ago) who believed those who were illegally arrested in at the G20 in Toronto should have been arrested for protesting. Many of which were just walking down the street. I think that is crazy

I know a socialist who believes because there are loop-holes in the employment insurance system they must be exploited. This guy is very intelligent, all self taught / learned, and works very hard when he works (I know becuase I worked piece work with him side by side and he was able to make more money than me). He believed that if he met all the requirements to recieve EI then he should take full advantage of EI. This is crazy

My liberal freinds "know" Im conservative and my conservative friends "know" Im liberal.

Now something that really spun my head around recently was I had a conversation with a Chinese man who came to Canada 5 years ago. He was telling me about China and their communist ways. He said China has been selling off (privatizing) many business that the government previously owned. They are not selling off business that people need to live their everyday lives. Businesses like oil and gas, natural resources, energy, and communications are still owned and controlled by the government. Im not a communist by any means but I think that would be a good idea. I dont understand why the governments always want to privatize any profitable area of the government. This is useually done by the conservatives where I live. The conservatives always argue they want to lower taxes and then dont want the government to have any other way to produce money other than taxes. To me China is doing some things right but I still do not want to live there.

I think steping back and trying to look at the big picture is a great thing to do.
"The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent." John Kenneth Galbraith 1975
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby PennyPauper » Wed May 22, 2013 12:43 am

Roadrunner wrote:That's a pretty typical stereotype. PM collector/hoarder/survivalist/religious/conservative/gun-owner all seem to go hand in hand.


Much wealth and plunder have gone into footing and mantaining those stereotypes upon you.Bow before your leaders.
Wear it well you crazy types.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby PennyPauper » Wed May 22, 2013 1:16 am

frugalcanuck wrote:Great thread

.... I am into metals as a form of wealth preservation.

....I also believe there is a push to seperate people into liberal or conservative sides.

....I think steping back and trying to look at the big picture is a great thing to do.


I would like to agree if I may?
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby blackrabbit » Wed May 22, 2013 2:11 am

I agree with the canuck and am against privatization of essential industries.

I am either both liberal and conservative or neither. Mostly these labels are generally used to just divide and conquer. I used to think I was an Anarchist/Anti-authoritarian Leftist but now I figure I am just a freedom loving human that appreciates peace, truth, justice, and helping others rather than feeding on them. I am generally against most organized religion but consider myself spiritual and kind of a pantheist. I realize the monetary system is the way those on top of the pyramid control the masses, so I like metals as money which they have less control over.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered....The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
-Thomas Jefferson
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby IdahoCopper » Wed May 22, 2013 6:28 am

I'm the sheep that the two wolves voted to eat for dinner.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby Engineer » Wed May 22, 2013 6:46 am

blackrabbit wrote:I agree with the canuck and am against privatization of essential industries.

I am either both liberal and conservative or neither. Mostly these labels are generally used to just divide and conquer. I used to think I was an Anarchist/Anti-authoritarian Leftist but now I figure I am just a freedom loving human that appreciates peace, truth, justice, and helping others rather than feeding on them. I am generally against most organized religion but consider myself spiritual and kind of a pantheist. I realize the monetary system is the way those on top of the pyramid control the masses, so I like metals as money which they have less control over.


Well put, and your post describes me perfectly.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby silverflake » Wed May 22, 2013 8:34 am

Ah, the labels! OK, I am Christian in my religion, classic liberal in my economics and belief in the role of government (Libertarian) and conservative in my social values and control of my money. So, I end up voting Republican, not because they have all the answers (they DON'T) but mainly because the other side (Democrats) move in a direction opposite of almost every belief I have.

Now with reference to the thread - are most silver/gold collectors religious/conservative? Well through observation only, I would say yes. My opinion is because we religious/conservatives are concerned, not only with preserving our liberties in this life, but we are also concerned with being prepared for the next life everlasting in Christ. Many (NOT ALL) of the left leaning folks have given up on God and thus pursue a 'Heaven on Earth' scenario where we are all equal and all love one another. Noble, yes, but the hearts of men, even Christian men (and women) have too much greed, lust and sloth within. It cannot happen as long as we recognize we are human and are thus, flawed. So conservative/religious types will do whatever it takes to not allow government to take control from us, liberties from us, and our money/wares from us. One way to prevent the government from taking our money by way of ever inflating currency is to trust in the integrity and timeless value of gold and silver (as mentioned in our Bible too). There is my opinion on why I think most silver/gold collectors are religious/conservative.

One last thing, I say this opinion because I don't OBSERVE many on the left hoarding silver/gold or advocating for hard currencies. BUT, I have come to realize from the gun control issue that there are many on the left in strong support of the second amendment and against any infringement on our rights to own guns. They are just either afraid (too strong a word?) or at least hesitant to look as if they are "right-wing-nuts" because that's how the media portrays us. Thus, on the silver/gold thing, there are probably many, many on the left who collect/hoard silver and gold and may even be religious, but not conservative as a label.

Take my two cents for what they are worth. Feel free to disagree - we actually need that.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby InfleXion » Wed May 22, 2013 9:33 am

silverflake, we are pretty darn close! I am also Christian and also consider myself Classical Liberal (the founding fathers really got it right), although by modern definition I could be considered Constitutionalist, Libertarian, free market capitalist, or by some stretch a conservative although I disagree with the left/right paradigm and instead prefer the political diamond diagram. I generally align more with Republicans but I don't vote for them because the main difference between them and Democrats is that they want to spend money we don't have on wars as opposed to other people, and they both promote corporate fascism and monetary devaluation.

I also think Christians are more prone toward owning precious metals because gold and silver are mentioned numerous times throughout the Bible. As Lindsey Williams has pointed out, gold is mentioned in Genesis 2 and it says that gold is good. Essentially it provides additional historical context about the value of precious metals over the course of human history (30 shekels of silver for Judas to turn on Jesus? That's about 6 ounces), and let's face it, the educational system doesn't do that great of a job. If people want to know the history of money they're going to have to seek it out for themselves. Even when I took an Econ class in college and they never mentioned metals.

The other thing the Bible says is that the love of money is the root of all evil. I struggle with this at times because I definitely don't love fiat currency, but I do love metal, and metal is money right? My distaste for dollars bolsters my affinity for metals. So I hope I'm not falling into that pitfall, but ultimately by not loving the almighty dollar I think we are freer to put our money into other things, and I have no doubt that metals are a good place to be right now with everything going on. They're protection from theft through inflation, bank confiscation, financial instability, and tyranny in general as they provide the ability to transact off the grid. I have no idea if the mark is coming in my time, but if it does I will be in a position to buy and sell without it.
Silver: the Rodney Dangerfield of precious metals.

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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby beauanderos » Wed May 22, 2013 9:49 am

.999 is 666 upside down? :shock: :?
The Hand of God moves WorldsImage
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby blackrabbit » Wed May 22, 2013 10:09 am

:lol:
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered....The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
-Thomas Jefferson
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby Oldpagan » Wed May 22, 2013 12:16 pm

Well... I'm pagan and follow the path of the Druids, and consider myself Libertarian. Yet I like gold, silver, and things that throw lead :twisted:
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby SilverDragon72 » Wed May 22, 2013 8:08 pm

Oakair wrote:
68Camaro wrote:
Oakair wrote:Im liberal and definitely not religious...but I value silver and gold...


I'll still talk to you... ;)


:lol:

Much as silver is silver and gold gold, A person is a person...ideologies and mentalities don't change the fundamental underlying truth: We are all in this together (we are thrown without asking into a world we did not choose)



Well said. I lean left of center on many issues, and I simply love the shiny! I'm not a religious person at all. I also like things that go boom and push lead through a barrel at high velocity!
Last edited by SilverDragon72 on Wed May 22, 2013 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby SilverDragon72 » Wed May 22, 2013 8:09 pm

PennyPauper wrote:
frugalcanuck wrote:Great thread

.... I am into metals as a form of wealth preservation.

....I also believe there is a push to seperate people into liberal or conservative sides.

....I think steping back and trying to look at the big picture is a great thing to do.


I would like to agree if I may?



Good points! :thumbup:
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby SilverDragon72 » Wed May 22, 2013 8:11 pm

blackrabbit wrote:I agree with the canuck and am against privatization of essential industries.

I am either both liberal and conservative or neither. Mostly these labels are generally used to just divide and conquer. I used to think I was an Anarchist/Anti-authoritarian Leftist but now I figure I am just a freedom loving human that appreciates peace, truth, justice, and helping others rather than feeding on them. I am generally against most organized religion but consider myself spiritual and kind of a pantheist. I realize the monetary system is the way those on top of the pyramid control the masses, so I like metals as money which they have less control over.



Follow the blackrabbit! :thumbup:

Well said.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby SilverDragon72 » Wed May 22, 2013 8:12 pm

beauanderos wrote:.999 is 666 upside down? :shock: :?



:o OH NO!!!! :lol:
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby scyther » Wed May 22, 2013 9:24 pm

Conservatives tend to be anti-government and support financial freedom more. Liberals want to regulate people's lives, especially financially. Gold and silver are anonymous forms of currency that don't require the government's approval or backing and don't have counter party risk. They help maintain financial privacy (although it's getting harder and harder to do that even with gold and silver). It's no surprise, then, that most people who hoard gold and silver are conservatives and libertarians.

As other people have said, there are parts of the Bible that can be used to support sound money, and religious/socially conservative people tend to align politically with anti-government people (in the US of today at least), while socially liberal people tend to be pro-government, so it's also not surprising that a lot of PM holders are religious or socially conservative.

But I think there's less of a direct connection there. There's no reason a socially liberal/tolerant/libertine or atheist/agnostic person can't support sound money and enjoy holding gold and silver. But there is a bit of a conflict between supporting an extensive welfare state and a lot of regulation and financial control, and supporting sound money and widespread PM ownership. Sound money limits what the government can do in terms of spending, and the privacy afforded by bullion makes it more difficult to collect taxes and monitor people's money.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby scyther » Wed May 22, 2013 9:30 pm

Mossy wrote:Think about what many (NOT all) "liberals" and "leftists" want: absolute power to the government? That's neither liberal nor left, but authoritarian and right wing. Extreme right wing. People who are truly liberals and truly leftists are around, but they call themselves nearly anything, including liberal. Some true, old fashioned liberals are now called "neo-cons", as an insult. It's a headache.

I disagree. You're right about the term "liberal", but not "leftist". Leftists have always supported government power and suppression of the individual. The far right can also be authoritarian, as you said. But sometimes classical liberalism/libertarianism is considered Right as well...
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby InfleXion » Wed May 22, 2013 11:50 pm

scyther wrote:Conservatives tend to be anti-government and support financial freedom more. Liberals want to regulate people's lives, especially financially. Gold and silver are anonymous forms of currency that don't require the government's approval or backing and don't have counter party risk. They help maintain financial privacy (although it's getting harder and harder to do that even with gold and silver). It's no surprise, then, that most people who hoard gold and silver are conservatives and libertarians.

As other people have said, there are parts of the Bible that can be used to support sound money, and religious/socially conservative people tend to align politically with anti-government people (in the US of today at least), while socially liberal people tend to be pro-government, so it's also not surprising that a lot of PM holders are religious or socially conservative.

But I think there's less of a direct connection there. There's no reason a socially liberal/tolerant/libertine or atheist/agnostic person can't support sound money and enjoy holding gold and silver. But there is a bit of a conflict between supporting an extensive welfare state and a lot of regulation and financial control, and supporting sound money and widespread PM ownership. Sound money limits what the government can do in terms of spending, and the privacy afforded by bullion makes it more difficult to collect taxes and monitor people's money.

Well said. You blew my mind because it seems like just a few years ago conservatives were towing the republican party line. Now it includes anti-government, wow. It's like the left/right paradigm has adapted to incorporate a growing majority that didn't used to be as prevalent. Definitions are always changing.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby johnbrickner » Thu May 23, 2013 6:35 am

aristobolus wrote:I believe what binds us together on this fourm is our God given high calling as Man, to be responsbile stewards of the earth.


[edit to add more]

PennyPauper wrote:The more time we spend talking about labels and dividing ourselves up into this thing or that thing,the less time we spend working together to affect the change needed to pull back the curtain. We all have to eat,sleep,and do human things.


That's what I'm talking about! Glad to see someone else is onboard.

[edit to add more]

No. I really think it's an awareness thing. You are either aware of gold/silver maintaining value and paper not or you are unaware. Religious and political bent forming belief systems within you or not.

How do the sound bites go?

Give unto Ceasar . . .
Govt. out of my pocket book and bedroom.
You gotta believe in something or you'll fall for anything.
You don't know what you don't know.
The more you know the more you don't know.
Don't mix religion and politics.
I'll stop here.
Last edited by johnbrickner on Thu May 23, 2013 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: gold/silver collecting go w/ being religious/conservativ

Postby PennyPauper » Thu May 23, 2013 7:43 pm

The more time we spend talking about labels and dividing ourselves up into this thing or that thing,the less time we spend working together to affect the change needed to pull back the curtain. We all have to eat,sleep,and do human things. We are all Americans. We want to enjoy all the liberties and freedoms millions of others are dreaming about when they come here. I'm changing my mind to think in many ways the foreigners are more my friends,and have more in common with me then alot of my fellow "citizens" asleep at the wheel or lined up and the gov't pig feeder. God Bless
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