Realcent.org

I always use spot x .723 x face but I see some online sites are using .715. I assume this is because the coins don't weigh quite as much as when they were new due to a slight amount of wear. I am surprised to see them selling at x .715 though.

Difference only amounts to about $0.28 per $1 of face @ $35 spot but it adds up on a big purchase.

As far as silver content, what does everyone use when you figure your 90%?

Most Dealers I see use .715 an ounce. The .723 concept is foreign for the most part to most dealers.

Keep in mind when you buy 90% proof silver and uncirculated coins that indeed they follow .723 rule, but wont net you any premium if you use normal junk silver numbers (unless you try to get a premium on your own).

Keep in mind that popular sites such as conflation actually use the .723 system as they assume the coins to be a in proof/uncirculated state, which most arent.

I understand the face method but I don't know why people don't use the ounce weight of silver in a coin. In a half dollar its .36169. Multiply that times spot price and you have the value of the half dollar. currently thats $13.36.

xface is handy if you are buying a mix of different denomination of coins. Junk is sold based on x .715 to account for wear.

Because you can work with all of the coins at at face value together with the .715 method

In your method you have to calculate each one out.

Ex.

$1.00 Face value, Spot: $35
1 x 35 x .715 = $25.025

2 Quarters, 5 dimes

(5 x 0.072339) + (2 x 0.180848) = 0.723392 x 35 = 25.32

And that was just with quarters and dimes, add in halves and it gets a little more difficult.

(Or what jade said, damn posts sneaking in while I am typing up my report)
I would like to point out that it not hard to compute in ounces, it's just easier to work the first set of numbers.

dan53 wrote:I understand the face method but I don't know why people don't use the ounce weight of silver in a coin. In a half dollar its .36169. Multiply that times spot price and you have the value of the half dollar. currently thats $13.36.

It's because everything rolls downhill. Big companies want cheap labor, and you can't count on cheap labor to think and use common sense. It's easy for the 18 year old working the buy counter at PawnAmerica to understand xx times face for 90%, but asking them to weigh, convert to a percentage, multiply the percentage times spot, and then subtract the buy discount percentage is asking for disaster.

Engineer wrote:

dan53 wrote:I understand the face method but I don't know why people don't use the ounce weight of silver in a coin. In a half dollar its .36169. Multiply that times spot price and you have the value of the half dollar. currently thats $13.36.

It's because everything rolls downhill. Big companies want cheap labor, and you can't count on cheap labor to think and use common sense. It's easy for the 18 year old working the buy counter at PawnAmerica to understand xx times face for 90%, but asking them to weigh, convert to a percentage, multiply the percentage times spot, and then subtract the buy discount percentage is asking for disaster.

OR pawn america could just design a simple program for the kids smart phone where he can put in the number of each and it would spit out an amount to pay the customer. The correct answer being as close to zero as possible.

dan53 wrote:I understand the face method but I don't know why people don't use the ounce weight of silver in a coin. In a half dollar its .36169. Multiply that times spot price and you have the value of the half dollar. currently thats $13.36.

As the price creeps up in coming years I venture that Ag will be weighed like Au currently is. Just as somebody doesn't want to overpay for worn coins, people won't want to undersell for high grade coins.

I use .723 for dimes, quarters, halves...
...and don't forget .773 for dollars.
With that, I *ALWAYS* look for the least worn specimens when buying. But then again so does EVERYONE else who is digging through the junk silver box at the local shop.

AlexTG wrote: The correct answer being as close to zero as possible.

If they could they would talk you into paying them to take your coin.

Ok, I concede that having a .723 multiplier is a lot quicker. I was sitting here thinking about how the number was derived and its no coincidence that in a dime there is .07234 ounces silver. Multiply that times 10 and you get the .723 multiplier. It works for dimes, quarters, and halves because all three of these coins are monetarily proportionate with regard to silver content......the silver in ten dimes = the silver in four quarters = the silver in two halves = .723 ounces. Like uthminsta pointed out, it doesn't work for dollars. Makes me wonder why they didn't make dollars proportionate with the other coins.

I think in the 1850's when they reduced the weight of 90% the first time they changed the weights of Half dimes, dimes, quarters, and halves but kept the dollars as is.

So maybe a $1 of pre 1853 90% coinage= $1 morgan dollar.

It also might have been a rule at the time the dollar must have been the weight of silver of a Morgan dollar, but a loop hole to debase other coins.

The coinage act of 1792 specifically states that the dollar is 371.25 grains of fine silver. Which is .7734 Troy Oz. Which is how much silver is in the Morgan/Peace and earlier dollar coins. It also stated the weights of the half, quarter and dime. They were all proportional to each other.

The same coinage act also set the relative of gold to silver ratio at 15-1. It then set the value of the gold coins called Eagles at 10 "dollars". In other words the gold coin would be equal in value to 10 silver coins. 10 dollars contains 7.734 Troy Oz. of silver, a 15-1 ratio puts the amount of gold at .515 Troy Oz. which is how much gold is in the first release of the gold Eagle (1797-1804).

The debasement of our coinage started early on.

In 1838 the Eagle was debased to .48375 Troy Oz. That was the same year the dime, quarter and half were debased. That is why the dollar does not equal 2 halves, 4 quarters or 10 dimes, etc, etc...